South Carolina High School Student Dragged From Class

[bobabode]

Originally Posted by djv8ga

Two wrongs don't make a right. You can't assualt someone like that. If I did it to somebody, officer slam (lol) would arrest me. This was another case of an unproffesional jerk losing his cool IMO.
I think he should be charged with assualt.

Agreed.

[Ike Bana]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

She was told to stop texting, and it is said that she did. Then she was told to do something else, and she refused. Then she was ruled in defiance, and the world was stopped to deal with this high crime.

Now, was the something else truly necessary? Choose your battles, and the time for them, is what I'm saying. Which, I assure you, is totally different from letting the students control the classroom.

The world does not have to come to a stop because a kid was texting. If there's dancing in the aisles in math class, then call out the guard. But a girl pissed off and sulking? As long as she's quiet about it, let her sulk. You can teach around that.

So it comes down to people like you questioning the judgement and professionalism of the school staff. When it's really none of anybody's business but theirs, and those they report to.

[donquixote99]

Oooooo, the profession has professional training and experience, and us mere mortals must defer to their judgement?

Bah. It's not true, not about cops, not about doctors, and not about teachers. Now I could be wrong here, but there have been no facts brought out to contradict my take as of yet. The teacher decided to stop the world because a girl was sulky and pissed him off. If her crimes were greater than that, show it. Sorry, I'm not willing to 'trust the teacher' and assume it.

In any case, let's be sure we understand that the criticism of the teacher is somewhat speculative, and more than anything a wish that he'd been able, him being who he was and the girl being who she was, to defuse instead of escalate the confrontation--before Officer Slam, the real and known bad actor, showed up and did his thing.

[Ike Bana]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

Oooooo, the profession has professional training and experience, and us mere mortals must defer to their judgement?

Bah. It's not true, not about cops, not about doctors, and not about teachers. Now I could be wrong here, but there have been no facts brought out to contradict my take as of yet. The teacher decided to stop the world because a girl was sulky and pissed him off. If her crimes were greater than that, show it. Sorry, I'm not willing to 'trust the teacher' and assume it.

In any case, let's be sure we understand that the criticism of the teacher is somewhat speculative, and more than anything a wish that he'd been able, him being who he was and the girl being who she was, to defuse instead of escalate the confrontation--before Officer Slam, the real and known bad actor, showed up and did his thing.

First the school staff. Do you have a clue how easy it is for a classroom to go out of control...incidentally or as a process? Teachers need to maintain order and control. Depending on the school, often ruthless order and control. Any indication that they won't or can't and the testing begins. I'm assuming you have kids don. Their prime objective, and I'm not being negative about this because it's a learning process in their development, is to test limits. Determine what behaviors are OK and and not OK. The learning happens directly and indirectly...what happens to the kid, and what the kid sees happening to other kids. Any classroom teacher who allows a kid to oppositionally defy the rules of order is asking for chaos. The good teachers are those who maximize classroom learning and in the process of maintaining unflinching order HELP THE KIDS IN THEIR INDIVIDUAL PROCESS OF DEVELOPING SOME FUCKING SELF CONTROL. They will not let any student get away with the shit this student tried to pull. It doesn't matter if the kid stepped in dogshit on the way to school or if the kid's mother died last month. It's about not allowing the process to be negatively impacted, and certainly not in front of other students. Oh my...poor little miss is going to be terminally damaged if she has to put away her goddamm cellphone. The school staff is doing you a favor little girl. You're a high school student, you're getting close to going out into the workplace, if you haven't already. Watch what happens when your boss tells you to get off your phone and get back to work and you decide you don't have to. In addition to the need to maintain full classroom control, it's a life lesson for christ's sake.

There's no intelligent discussion among quality teaching professionals classroom or administrative regarding the actions of this teacher or this assistant principal. Stop the world, my ass. What is it with you?

As far as this incident is concerned, it was really two incidents, with two vastly different sets of control and consequences.

1. The first was the classroom dynamic with school staff. The school staff handled this situation exactly as they should and how such situations are handled in the vast majority of school districts where teachers and administrators are doing their jobs correctly. The control is with school staff, the consequences are increasingly severe, depending on the the behavior. Minor stuff earns a trip to the school office to chill out. More serious earns an after school detention. Worse a suspension. Maximum earns an expulsion. Maxiumum? How's about zero tolerance that earns a kid a permanent expulsion for bringing a look-alike toy gun on to school grounds that resembles a real firearm. But...BBbbbuuuuuut...it's not a real gun it's a toy gun. Tough shit kid, tough shit mom and dad....it's done...you're gone. Case closed.

2. The second incident begins when the student refuses to comply and law enforcement is called in to facilitate removal of the student from the classroom or possibly even removed from school property if the situation gets serious enough. The control is law enforcement. The consequences are arrest and charges.

I don't understand why TF we need to keep doing this idiotic dance. It's not that complicated. It's the way it's designed. It's the way it needs to work. It's the way it typically works and works fine. This cop screwed up. If he had just dragged her in her chair out into the hallway, called for backup to help get her off school property if that was necessary to get it accomplished without taking her down...it would have been one of probably a dozen similar incidents (probably more) across the country that day where an oppositional and defiant kid refused to comply with either level of control.

Jesus christ on a fucking pogo stick, don.

[Oerets]

As unpopular as this my view will be, I feel the officer thou over acted in the little of the event we see. Still feel the actions taken were called for. Just like collateral damage with the fog of war, ugly but a fact none the less and hard to avoid.
The officer is the tip of the spear so should be the last resort taken and used. Called in to do a job and did it. Would the result been any different if they left her there and called the police? The student caused this by failing to follow the rules and authority should be expelled from school. Period! End of story. Actions with such results would quickly stop any further occurrences from happening again IMO.

Sorry but I never need to lay a hand on either of my sons, but was willing to and they knew it. The fear of this made them aware of bad acts and consequences.

BTW what good purpose is served by having students and cell phones in a classroom? They should be placed into a big box when entering class and retrieved at the end of class. At the very least on silent and kept out of sight or then taken away till the end of the day if not followed.



Barney

[Dondilion]

The muddle headers want to give princess her "space".

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by djv8ga

Two wrongs don't make a right. You can't assualt someone like that. If I did it to somebody, officer slam (lol) would arrest me. This was another case of an unproffesional jerk losing his cool IMO.
I think he should be charged with assualt.

I agree. And, very well stated, BTW. Was the girl unruly? Yes. Did she need to be removed from the classroom? Yes. Did she need to be restrained? Perhaps. Was it necessary and reasonable to throw her to the floor and toss her around like that? No. That cops boss says it wasn't and I agree.

I'm don't want to stop the police from doing what we pay them to do, I want to stop them from living up to the bad image some folks have of them. We need cops. We don't need jackbooted thugs, beating up teenage girls for being teenage girls.

[donquixote99]

Originally Posted by Ike Bana

First the school staff. Do you have a clue how easy it is for a classroom to go out of control...incidentally or as a process? Teachers need to maintain order and control. Depending on the school, often ruthless order and control. Any indication that they won't or can't and the testing begins. I'm assuming you have kids don. Their prime objective, and I'm not being negative about this because it's a learning process in their development, is to test limits. Determine what behaviors are OK and and not OK. The learning happens directly and indirectly...what happens to the kid, and what the kid sees happening to other kids. Any classroom teacher who allows a kid to oppositionally defy the rules of order is asking for chaos. The good teachers are those who maximize classroom learning and in the process of maintaining unflinching order HELP THE KIDS IN THEIR INDIVIDUAL PROCESS OF DEVELOPING SOME FUCKING SELF CONTROL. They will not let any student get away with the shit this student tried to pull. It doesn't matter if the kid stepped in dogshit on the way to school or if the kid's mother died last month. It's about not allowing the process to be negatively impacted, and certainly not in front of other students. Oh my...poor little miss is going to be terminally damaged if she has to put away her goddamm cellphone. The school staff is doing you a favor little girl. You're a high school student, you're getting close to going out into the workplace, if you haven't already. Watch what happens when your boss tells you to get off your phone and get back to work and you decide you don't have to. In addition to the need to maintain full classroom control, it's a life lesson for christ's sake.

There's no intelligent discussion among quality teaching professionals classroom or administrative regarding the actions of this teacher or this assistant principal. Stop the world, my ass. What is it with you?

As far as this incident is concerned, it was really two incidents, with two vastly different sets of control and consequences.

1. The first was the classroom dynamic with school staff. The school staff handled this situation exactly as they should and how such situations are handled in the vast majority of school districts where teachers and administrators are doing their jobs correctly. The control is with school staff, the consequences are increasingly severe, depending on the the behavior. Minor stuff earns a trip to the school office to chill out. More serious earns an after school detention. Worse a suspension. Maximum earns an expulsion. Maxiumum? How's about zero tolerance that earns a kid a permanent expulsion for bringing a look-alike toy gun on to school grounds that resembles a real firearm. But...BBbbbuuuuuut...it's not a real gun it's a toy gun. Tough shit kid, tough shit mom and dad....it's done...you're gone. Case closed.

2. The second incident begins when the student refuses to comply and law enforcement is called in to facilitate removal of the student from the classroom or possibly even removed from school property if the situation gets serious enough. The control is law enforcement. The consequences are arrest and charges.

I don't understand why TF we need to keep doing this idiotic dance. It's not that complicated. It's the way it's designed. It's the way it needs to work. It's the way it typically works and works fine. This cop screwed up. If he had just dragged her in her chair out into the hallway, called for backup to help get her off school property if that was necessary to get it accomplished without taking her down...it would have been one of probably a dozen similar incidents (probably more) across the country that day where an oppositional and defiant kid refused to comply with either level of control.

Jesus christ on a fucking pogo stick, don.

Yes. Tell us all about FUCKING SELF CONTROL.

It's possible I am wrong. I said so. Assuming for a moment I am wrong, why is that occasion for such frothing denunciation?

In the above rant you assume a bunch of stuff you don't know, and then you ask what is it with me? What it is with me is that tentatively, absent further info, I'm assigning blame to a teacher! Horrors! And I'm refusing to back down because cussed at, because of invocations of professional privilege, or because you are so forceful in saying I should.

You assert "The school staff handled this situation exactly as they should..." Excuse me, but how the fuck can you claim to know that? We have only the slightest particles of knowledge of how the initial incident went down, who said and did what, and in what order. You're assuming the kid was a defiant brat, because you hate defiant bratty kids, seems to me. I'm assuming the teacher was a stick-up-his-ass nimrod, because the bits of info I see seem to me to indicate he escalated the situation needlessly.

Either one of us could be wrong. Chill.

[Tom Joad]

Originally Posted by Ike Bana

She wasn't handcuffed and arrested for using a cell phone in class, TJ. She was handcuffed and arrested for physically resisting a law enforcement officer responding to a request by school staff to remove her from the classroom. If she had gotten up out of her seat and walked to the school office with Fields, or the assistant principle nobody would have been arrested and nobody outside of that classroom and that school would know anything about it.

Nothing this kid did justifies the manner in which this cop reacted.

[donquixote99]

Originally Posted by Dondilion

The muddle headers want to give princess her "space".

Name calling and mocking reframing of the position of others. That's the way to win an argument!