Roseburg, Oregon School Shooting

[4-2-7]

Originally Posted by 4-2-7

Murders not deaths!!!!!!!
It's not accurate to include suisids and accidents.

Originally Posted by Boreas

It's about guns. Whether it's murder, suicide or accident doesn't matter.

Originally Posted by Pio1980

Gun deaths are gun deaths. Unfortunately, a cinvenient push button response to despair is an instant and easy, no callback, permanent solution. Accidents happen, almost all due to carelessness.

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Originally Posted by BlueStreak

Of course it won't. It would be as effective as training criminals the proper use of firearms...........

The problem has absolutely nothing to do with training. Lunatics don't accidently kill people because no one told them not to. Criminals kill despite being told it's wrong because they enjoy it and just don't care.

I'm so sick of all of these idiotic arguments. We shouldn't do ANYTHING about crazies having access to guns because people die in auto accidents?????? Why do ANYTHING about uncheck gun proliferation when a person could also get killed from a BBQ grille accident?????????

The twisted logic of these people is evidence in itself that proves they are out of their minds. And, the more adamant they become in using such nonsensical arguments, the more one questions the wisdom of attempting rational dialog with them at all.

In fact................

Well, Dave then when the left want's to post the stats of gun deaths it should only be Murders but your buddies don't agree. So then if the focus is just on death rate "ALL" deaths by what ever means need to be looked at.

[BlueStreak]

Dan, the NRA, it's sister organizations and their supporters have become their own worst enemies. They are going too far. If you can't see why I say that, it's a personal problem that no one can help you with.

Have a great day, Bud.

[donquixote99]

Originally Posted by BlueStreak

Yep. Our buddy -5 did the same just a few posts back.

Such people are just fine with shot up movie theaters and elementary schools. They seem to think that the daily carnage with the bonus of an occasional massacre is the "price of freedom".........

I question whether we are actually "free" at all, living in such a society and it makes their heads explode. Once it reaches the point where I feel I must carry a loaded weapon wherever I go and maintain my home as a fortress, because they have loaded up our nation with idiots, lunatics and criminals who have free, unhindered access to firearms...............

No. I am no longer free. At that point I am a prisoner in my own land and America is no longer worth living in.

Big +1!

[4-2-7]

Originally Posted by CarlV

Don't you have anything to offer here other than the same old NRA talking points and spin?

I don't know what the NRA talking points are, just my own feelings about peoples rights and the constitution that lefty don't care about.


Carl

Originally Posted by donquixote99

RWAs don't care if schools get shot up. Thanks for making that clear.

No comment

[4-2-7]

Originally Posted by BlueStreak

Dan, the NRA, it's sister organizations and their supporters have become their own worst enemies. They are going too far. If you can't see why I say that, it's a personal problem that no one can help you with.

Have a great day, Bud.

Hey I live in California we have had the strongest gun laws in the country. Even then, still though that time we had cities with the highest murder rate per capita for many years.

Peace out you have a good one to.

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

Perhaps we need 'statistics control' because people often use them poorly, and even to support crimes?

My statistics ARE facts, and you can have them when you pry them from my cold dead fingers!

Seriously, you are correct that open-mindedness is more honored in the breach than elsewise, and even people who think they are open-minded often aren't--let alone the conservatives who mock the open-mindedness of liberals. So a reminder is never amiss.

But, Don! Sometimes they include deaths that occur when a good guy with a gun shoots a bad guy..............who has a gun.

Deaths due to gunfire don't count because people also die in plane crashes. So the first step to controlling who has access to guns would obviously have to start with outlawing airplanes.......

See how that works?

Yeah. Sounds like delusional ravings to me too.

[mpholland]

Originally Posted by 4-2-7

Car related deaths cannot happen without cars. Get it?

They are ONLY committed with Cars

No Dave it's not a separate issue, death is death and what causes it is open to decision as it's what the left is saying they want to stop by taking guns away.

If that's trully the case we should outlaw cars and cell phones and drinking before going after gun owners.

I wouder how many people die in a bath tube each year.

There is the flaw in your thinking. Personally, I am not in favor of the elimination of guns, and most know that would be an unrealistic goal. We are discussing the regulation of the sale of guns and the fact that even sane people should have some sort of education about firearms when they buy one.

Cars are heavily regulated, and you have to have some sort of education to get a license to drive one in public.

Cell phones and alcohol are also quite regulated, and you are not allowed to operate a vehicle while using either one. You know why? Because when you mix cell phones, alcohol and cars people tend to die. Guns have nowhere near the level of regulation of other causes of serious injury and death.

Originally Posted by 4-2-7

I find it ironic whenever the left gets up in arms and starts talking about stepping on peoples rights to own guns, gun sales go up.

The sales really are, not for people who already are gun owners, you know the responsible ones who have used them in their whole life. Generally, it's two people that never cared in the first place if they had one or not, or a young person that just became of age. I feel that later do it on impulse which is the wrong reason.

A gun owner IMHO should grow into it and get trained slowly. A friend or family member that knows guns and how to treat them can help. going out and using their guns to learn with. I shot guns and loaded bullets for them many years before ever buy one. I had a friend who had many guns and if we were going shooting or hunting, I would pick one of his guns and load for it.

The point is that it used to be something that was handed down in training and knowlege, something you grow into.

So, since this knowledge and training isn't happening on its own anymore, that is when government actually has the RESPONSIBILITY to step in and make knowledge and training a mandatory part of gun ownership to protect the rights of those that might be injured or killed due to the improper use of them. The reasons the gun ownership goes up after tragedies isn't for protection, or because people are afraid some crazy is going to shoot them. It is because after every tragedy, someone suggests a tad bit of regulation and the NRA and other RWN's start screaming that the government is coming for your guns and if you don't have one, you better get one while you still can.

[Tom Joad]

Originally Posted by icenine

Most Americans would come eventually to see gun control in the same light as Social Security...something that made the US better. I have walked the streets of Singapore at 1 am and you cannot imagine how good it feels knowing you are not going to get shot.

I will give up my need to own a three-round burst semi-automatic weapon if it means one life is going to be saved. Those rifles belong in Iraq, not in my living room or at Starbucks.
I don't need it, and I trust those who have been professionally trained with them (the police, the SWAT teams, the US military) to use them to protect me should the need arise.

At the end of the day these massacres are being carried out by people with clean records.

You went Bagger on the gas tax.

http://politicalchat.org/showpost.ph...6&postcount=61

Therefore I reserve my right to go Bagger on guns.

[mpholland]

Originally Posted by Pio1980

Apparently the Sher'f is 'that' kind of idiot.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewir...y-hook-truther

Sheriff In Charge Of Oregon Massacre Probe Posted Sandy Hook Truther Video - http://huff.to/1L911hG

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That sheriff isn't alone. Folks think that Oregon is a very liberal state, and in the populous areas it is. However, when you get out to the more rural areas, Oregon and Washington both are some of the most conservative of the right in the country. Right after Sandy Hook, sheriff Tim Mueller wrote a similar letter to DC and got a bunch of his fellow sheriffs to follow suit. There is a serious political division between the Portland, Salem, and Eugene population centers and the rest of the state. That is one of the reasons Tom McCall had his come visit, but then go home mantra. He was a republican governor that didn't want all the liberals coming to the state. Turns out, he was visionary.

[4-2-7]

Originally Posted by Boreas

I didn't particularly like having two different sources for two different years for the gun deaths, so here is the data from one source, the CDC via the Kaiser Family Foundation, from one year, 2013.

http://kff.org/other/state-indicator...te-per-100000/

United States 10.4

1. Alaska 19.8
2. Louisiana 19.3
3. Mississippi 17.8
4. Alabama 17.6
5. Arkansas 16.8
6. Wyoming 16.7
7. Montana 16.7
8. Oklahoma 16.5
9. New Mexico 15.5
10. Tennessee 15.4
11. South Carolina 15.2
12. Missouri 14.4
13. West Virginia 14.3
14. Arizona 14.1
15. Idaho 14.1
16. Nevada 13.8
17. Kentucky 13.7
18. Indiana 13.0
19. Georgia 12.6
20. Utah 12.6
21. North Carolina 12.1
22. Michigan 12.0
23. Florida 11.9
24. North Dakota 11.8
25. Colorado 11.5
26. Kansas 11.4
27. Pennsylvania 11.2
28. Ohio 11.0
29. Oregon 11.0
30. Maine 10.9
31. Texas 10.6
32. Delaware 10.3
33. Virginia 10.2
34. South Dakota 10.0
35. Maryland 9.7
36. Wisconsin 9.7
37. Vermont 9.2
38. Nebraska 9.0
39. District of Columbia 8.9
40. Washington 8.7
41. Illinois 8.6
42. Iowa 8.0
43. California 7.7
44. Minnesota 7.6
45. New Hampshire 6.4
46. New Jersey 5.7
47. Rhode Island 5.3
48. Connecticut 4.4
49. New York 4.2
50. Massachusetts 3.1
51. Hawaii 2.6

Originally Posted by 4-2-7

Murders not deaths!!!!!!!
It's not accurate to include suisids and accidents.

My point here is I find it very interesting that (Without checking Boreas source) the top ten states are our biggest hunting states aside from Idaho. The people that live there in the hunting and rural regions will have a lot of guns, they will have more accidents and it's a go to way of committing suicide. Then you have all the hunters that go there from all the other states and this is quiet significant in these states.