Actual Armed Citizens

[noonereal]

Originally Posted by flacaltenn

BlueStreak:



That's not the complete list of choices. The purpose of the tool (gun) is to control the situation -- not to finalize justice.. You can protect your stuff just with the sound of a pump-action shotgun.. And more often than not, that's how it's done. (Except in Texas where our bud Pete lives!) - or to detain the perps until the cops get there from the doughnut shop.. Even more satisfying night's work..

As for the huge VOLUME of weapons, the left bears some responsibility for that. My dad bought his first 3 rifles right after the 1968 legislation passed. Was CONVINCED that he had to do it NOW or that right would be gone. Same thing happened when the Congress goes left, Obama gets elected, or whacko legislation is proposed. Gun sales soar. Permit volumes go up. The NRA goes ballastic (pun intended). It's justified by the history of those opposing gun ownership. Maybe THAT's where your buds get that "patriotic duty" crap. It's not the guns that they want, they want to SCREW the political opposition to their ownership! And that -- is patriotic.

If the left would just work to enforce the EXISTING laws, make a better INSTACHECK, encourage training and safety and SHOW that they truly want safer gun ownership, the personal armory sizes would SHRINK within one generation.

the question is, why do so may need a gun to control a situation?

BTW the situations I have seen them try to control are barking dogs, party noises, illegal stop and question and annoying drunks.
of course there is no discounting the ego boost it seems to give the gun owner (even if others find them the fool)

Gun sales sore because of lack of understanding which leads to fear. The GOP makes a living on keeping you scared.

[noonereal]

Originally Posted by bhunter

Actually, I think the whole world likes violence, thus, firearms. Law enforcemnent television shows seem to be popular everywhere. I think most people live such boring lives that they like to escape into fantasy. Sadly, the occasional whack job pops up and shoots up the innocent. What do you think is the mindset of many of our citizens wrt to firearms? Don't your cats chase the lawn rats?

I have been looking down the barrel of a gun twice, read the thread I referenced again. BTW my action was anger at the absurd gun laws taht allowed people to pull guns on me.

You thought process on all this is from fear/weakness which is why you see things as you do.

[merrylander]

Originally Posted by bhunter

Actually, I think the whole world likes violence, thus, firearms. Law enforcemnent television shows seem to be popular everywhere. I think most people live such boring lives that they like to escape into fantasy. Sadly, the occasional whack job pops up and shoots up the innocent. What do you think is the mindset of many of our citizens wrt to firearms? Don't your cats chase the lawn rats?

BH a white tailed lawn rat is a deer, just a bit large for our cats. I have seen then stand up to a red fox though. Cats chase mice simply because they are programmed that way. I had rather hoped people are different.

[merrylander]

Originally Posted by flacaltenn

As for the huge VOLUME of weapons, the left bears some responsibility for that. My dad bought his first 3 rifles right after the 1968 legislation passed. Was CONVINCED that he had to do it NOW or that right would be gone. Same thing happened when the Congress goes left, Obama gets elected, or whacko legislation is proposed. Gun sales soar. Permit volumes go up. The NRA goes ballastic (pun intended). It's justified by the history of those opposing gun ownership. Maybe THAT's where your buds get that "patriotic duty" crap. It's not the guns that they want, they want to SCREW the political opposition to their ownership! And that -- is patriotic.

If the left would just work to enforce the EXISTING laws, make a better INSTACHECK, encourage training and safety and SHOW that they truly want safer gun ownership, the personal armory sizes would SHRINK within one generation.

Horse feathers, it was a GOP led Congress that passed legislation that forbids the BATF from keeping records on firearms use in the commission of a crime. That way the dealers who are providing them are never identified. Enforcing the laws my arse.

[merrylander]

Originally Posted by flacaltenn

Dave:

To your question of what the founder's would think adequate.. The first quote below answers it rhetorically in context of 1790 or so.. But you have to also consider the LAST quote below...

George Mason's Fairfax County Militia Plan, 1775:
"And we do each of us, for ourselves respectively, promise and engage to keep a good firelock in proper order, and to furnish ourselves as soon as possible with, and always keep by us, one pound of gunpowder, four pounds of lead, one dozen gunflints, and a pair of bullet moulds, with a cartouch box, or powder horn, and bag for balls."

John Adams:
"Arms in the hands of the citizens may be used at individual discretion for the defense of the country, the overthrow of tyranny or private self-defense."

Thomas Jefferson, in an early draft of the Virginia constitution:
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms in his own lands."

Patrick Henry:
"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined. The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able may have a gun."

Please note that the Framers (esp Adams) did not want a standing army, hence the need for everyman to have a flintlock powder and lead. This is why the 2nd is written the way it is.

[flacaltenn]

MerryLander:

The FBI (not the BATF) DOES keep voluminous records of how guns are used. I posted some of those statistics here.. Have no idea why you think it's a REP conspiracy... It's NOT horsefeathers that gun sales and permits go up dramatically every time the left threatens more legislation or takes over a wing of the state.. It's fact MerryLander....

And you obviously didn't read (or comprehend) any of those quotes I posted if you still claim that the 2nd Amendment was written ONLY for militia service..

Let's try a couple of those again.. This time with hilighter...

John Adams:
"Arms in the hands of the citizens may be used at individual discretion for the defense of the country, the overthrow of tyranny or private self-defense."

Thomas Jefferson, in an early draft of the Virginia constitution:
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms in his own lands."

Patrick Henry:
"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined. The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able may have a gun."

[BlueStreak]

""George Mason's Fairfax County Militia Plan, 1775:
"And we do each of us, for ourselves respectively, promise and engage to keep a good firelock in proper order, and to furnish ourselves as soon as possible with, and always keep by us, one pound of gunpowder, four pounds of lead, one dozen gunflints, and a pair of bullet moulds, with a cartouch box, or powder horn, and bag for balls.""

And, there it is. "a good firelock", "one pound of powder", etc.................

Sounds like a reasonable amount of firepower an individual should possess to me.

When I compare that to the cache of weapons, in both number and content of some of the people I know, I can only come to the conclusion that they have serious mental issues. They don't need more guns, they need a couch and a good therapist. And, BTW, in my honest opinion; That would be most of them.

What in the hell are they so afraid of?

Dave

[HatchetJack]

Don't blame the NRA. They are just reporting facts and not the ones that scare
us. A political party that threatens more and more legislation not because it's
what they believe is right but in the name of votes from fearfull people is what
scares us. It backfired on them and cost them more votes than it gained
them. Now I could care less about guns or football or motorcycles or airplanes
or boats or beer or knives or aligator hunting or anything dangerous. But it
should be my decision whether or not to expose myself and not up to some
pencil necked geek in Washington telling me how I can or can not live my life
and that's what the tea party crowd is about. Not so much taxes that some
of you would like to believe and demonize.

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by HatchetJack

Don't blame the NRA. They are just reporting facts and not the ones that scare
us. A political party that threatens more and more legislation not because it's
what they believe is right but in the name of votes from fearfull people is what
scares us. It backfired on them and cost them more votes than it gained
them. Now I could care less about guns or football or motorcycles or airplanes
or boats or beer or knives or aligator hunting or anything dangerous. But it
should be my decision whether or not to expose myself and not up to some
pencil necked geek in Washington telling me how I can or can not live my life
and that's what the tea party crowd is about. Not so much taxes that some
of you would like to believe and demonize.

Expose yourself? To whom? Are you defending Rep. Wiener?

And the NRA? They're collecting money and accruing power, like any other organization, that's all.

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by merrylander

Please note that the Framers (esp Adams) did not want a standing army, hence the need for everyman to have a flintlock powder and lead. This is why the 2nd is written the way it is.

Exactly. I would also add that the need to hunt in order to feed themselves and to survive on the largely lawless frontiers were also considerations as well. But, we got to see exactly what the founders really thought of the armed citizenry during the Whiskey Rebellion, didn't we? I wonder if that dumbass Palin will learn about that one when she passes through Pittsburgh? It's interesting to see what they thought about arming the citizens against a "tyrannical government" before they became the government. Seems to me, they learned that you cannot govern under those conditions. It doesn't work.

Dave