Actual Armed Citizens

[Zeke]

And most high schools offer driver's education but wrecks still occur.

It annoys me when folks equate guns with Patriotism or use it as a metallic phallus -- I find both groups to be radical wingnuts -- but a properly trained and rational human with a gun doesn't offend me.

The intellectually actionable queries are what is a "gun," what "training" mandates, and whether John Q. is "rational."

2A types are going to claim that the latter doesn't/shouldn't apply but it already does in the form of convicted felons. Their argument SHOULD be that the average citizen is far superior then most convicted felons...

Personally, I don't think so...

[Nationalist]

Originally Posted by Zeke

And most high schools offer driver's education but wrecks still occur.

It annoys me when folks equate guns with Patriotism or use it as a metallic phallus -- I find both groups to be radical wingnuts -- but a properly trained and rational human with a gun doesn't offend me.

The intellectually actionable queries are what is a "gun," what "training" mandates, and whether John Q. is "rational."

2A types are going to claim that the latter doesn't/shouldn't apply but it already does in the form of convicted felons. Their argument SHOULD be that the average citizen is far superior then most convicted felons...

Personally, I don't think so...

Hmmm... "metallic phallus" err uhh "actionable queries" ; now where did I put that dictionary?

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by Nationalist

Hmmm... "metallic phallus" err uhh "actionable queries" ; now where did I put that dictionary?

Welcome, Nationalist. Drop by the Introductions forum and say Hi. You'll love us once you get to know us. In the meantime, we'll bludgeon you like a red-headed stepchild.

[flacaltenn]

CombWork:

Although I'm adamant about keeping this right, I am ALL FOR proficiency and training. You can't mandate anything expensive or long since that works against low income folks in the bad parts of town. But to get a CCW permit, I believe you should show proof of basic proficiency. Ranges and Clubs could cover MOST of this..

I also believe that purchasers of guns who are Insta-Checked, should have crime-free, drug-free records and be mentally clear. I just have serious doubts about how accurate any Federally managed database can be. Would like to see a third party set-up (maybe GSE) to handle this..

It's not just the ownership and carry of guns in your country that is the issue. It's also the laws concerning self-defense of self and property that worry me. Apparently, you can't even carry a stick legally there anymore and can do jail time for physically resisting a burglar..

Nationalist: Don't know if JUST a dictionary will help. We make up our own "strategeries" as we go..

Zeke: Glad you brought up driver training.. My beef is that having a driver's license says NOTHING about driving proficiency. It's that way with MOST licensing. I just want to know that a CCW cares enough about his/her RIGHT to go to class one time..

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by Combwork

Remembering I come from a country where with extraordinarily few exceptions, anyone caught carrying a loaded gun in a public place would face a serious prison sentence, assuming it could be enforced, what would happen if right across all States the only people allowed to carry guns were law enforcers trained in the use of hand-guns?

The same thing that has happened with the wingnut predictions that Obama was the Racist Totalitarian So(c)ialist anti-Christ and that all of the white folk were going to end up slaves or in concentration camps..........

A bunch of noisy, half-baked, fear driven nonsense, and then----nothing.

Dave

[Combwork]

[QUOTE=flacaltenn;64338]CombWork:


It's not just the ownership and carry of guns in your country that is the issue. It's also the laws concerning self-defense of self and property that worry me. Apparently, you can't even carry a stick legally there anymore and can do jail time for physically resisting a burglar.

All true. The European Human Rights Act although set up with good intentions (probably) has been used by "human rights" Lawyers to get home owners put away and compensation for the would be burglar. Carry a stick? You must be mad; in the wrong hands anything bigger than a twig is a lethal weapon. The A12 road into Colchester England was lined with beautiful mature horse chestnut trees. They'd lined the approach to Colchester before the first motorised carriage puttered down it. Now they've all be cut down by the Council because "a falling chestnut could cause injury to anyone beneath it". I'm not making this up..........

[piece-itpete]

Blue, so true, we thought we were getting an anticolonialist and bam! he bombs Libya.

The lefts argument regarding gun control sounds like: American citizens are children and can't be trusted with guns. Heck all their decisions are suspect, so, we'll make'em for them

Comb, used to be pretty darn similar here. Now many states have enacted 'Castle' laws. Under the old setup you had to prove you were threatened. Now, the burden of proof is on the intruder. HUGE difference.

Pete

[merrylander]

So we insist on proper training and demonstration of proficiency. Should that also include a psychiatic evaluation? I knew several local folks who were very proficient with a sidearm, borderline fruitcakes also.

[Combwork]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

Comb, used to be pretty darn similar here. Now many states have enacted 'Castle' laws. Under the old setup you had to prove you were threatened. Now, the burden of proof is on the intruder. HUGE difference.

Pete

That change makes sense. If I read you right, the 'Castle' law means that the onus is on the intruder to prove they were not a threat. Very difficult proving a negative, especially before an unsympathetic jury.

I've been to the USA three times; once on business and twice on holiday. Maybe this is an exaggeration, or perhaps specific to Florida but I was told that unless it was an emergency, like your wife going into labor, you just don't walk up to a strangers front door in the dark.

[flacaltenn]

CombWork:

Fascinating chestnut story.. It goes to the heart of the "nanny" state philosophy and that is to attempt to remove ALL risks from ALL human endevours. Without realizing that risk is just part of the higher mammalian calculus for progress. Without risk existing, we'd be incapable of making educated judgements.

I wonder if Colbert know about the chesnut story.. Hmmmmm.