Why are Americans are so Dumb?

[RickeyM]

Originally Posted by FordGT90

Solar energy dates back to baking mud into bricks.

Today's solar cells do a lot more than baking mud bricks in the sun.

Originally Posted by FordGT90

Wind dates back to sail boats and wind mills.

A modern wind farm does a lot more than grinding grain which windmills were for. Despite that Tweety says there are no cases of "windmill cancer" or "piles of dead eagles".

Originally Posted by FordGT90

Hydro dates back to water powered mills and saws.

Hydroelectric, a form of "green" energy already in place and in wide use for years.

Originally Posted by FordGT90

The newest tech we have available today is nuclear. It's roughly only 70 years old.

Let's not put all of our eggs in one basket

[RickeyM]

Originally Posted by Oerets

There is little to be accomplished trying to change or open a mind that still thinks nuclear power is an answer.

Re: My answer to that in the above post

[FordGT90]

Originally Posted by RickeyM

Today's solar cells do a lot more than baking mud bricks in the sun.

Less efficiently. The best PV cells are only 27.7% efficient. Then there's downstream loses in DC/AC conversion, line losses, and finally at the end device doing work (e.g. a motor which may have 8-20% loss.

The sun is gonna sun. Efficiency doesn't really matter when it's freely given and the only cost is labor.

Originally Posted by RickeyM

A modern wind farm does a lot more than grinding grain which windmills were for. Despite that Tweety says there are no cases of "windmill cancer" or "piles of dead eagles".

Former: see above; inefficient.
Latter: https://www.fws.gov/birds/bird-enthu...d-turbines.php

Originally Posted by RickeyM

Hydroelectric, a form of "green" energy already in place and in wide use for years.

Everything that's reasonable to be dammed has been dammed. It can't reasonably expand to take more share than it has.

[Not Insane]

Originally Posted by FordGT90

Less efficiently. The best PV cells are only 27.7% efficient. Then there's downstream loses in DC/AC conversion, line losses, and finally at the end device doing work (e.g. a motor which may have 8-20% loss.

The sun is gonna sun. Efficiency doesn't really matter when it's freely given and the only cost is labor.



Former: see above; inefficient.
Latter: https://www.fws.gov/birds/bird-enthu...d-turbines.php


Everything that's reasonable to be dammed has been damned. It can't reasonably expand to take more share than it has.

I work for a large power company. We're building solar farms, but they are really a sort of experiment. We're not making any money on them and they don't produce much power, but we're creating the infrastructure to test the actual useful lifespan of the parts of the system and, basically, becoming knowledgable about the tech for if (when?) it does become economically viable.

However, though wind farms and solar farms look cool in science fiction movies, the reality is that they are a terrible eyesore. Nobody wants them in "their" neighborhood.

If we are going to start powering all our vehicles with electricity, the only viable answer is nuclear. And there are plenty of "former" anti-nuclear activists that have come around. Just search their ted talks on Youtube.

[FordGT90]

Sorry out of order, missed it...

Originally Posted by Oerets

A poison that keep on giving for many thousands of years in the future. I for one do not trust humans to contain the waste created so far.

Because we never tried to even address the problem. Case in point: USA doesn't have any operating breeder reactors left. On top of that, NASA actually bought plutonium from Russia because we aren't producing it anymore. We need plutonium for satellites.

This is a really deep subject and I don't really want to go there at present but suffice to say, it's much easier to deal with nuclear waste than it is to deal with toxicants put in to the air through fossil fuel combustion.

Originally Posted by Oerets

So keep on thinking like there will be another planet to move on to when this one is done, because of our stupidity. The days of moving to the next valley once the old one is used up are long gone.

Do realize that the new 2nd generation power plant being installed in Georgia literally has a massive passive cooler on the roof of the engine house. It's literally connected directly to the steam loop so the reactor can cool itself down simply by opening a few valves. The reactor will not be able to meltdown ever. If all else fails, physics will still send that heated water to the passive heatsinks shunting the excessive heat safely to the environment.

There are many other practical solutions to the problem too, like using thorium instead of uranium and using beds of fuel (high ratio of fluid to fuel) instead of rods. Most of the expertise in nuclear power is in Japan, China, and France. USA has fallen off the RADAR because of the 20 year long moratorium. Talk about a missed opportunity...we can catch up though if we commit to it.

Originally Posted by Not Insane

I work for a large power company. We're building solar farms, but they are really a sort of experiment. We're not making any money on them and they don't produce much power, but we're creating the infrastructure to test the actual useful lifespan of the parts of the system and, basically, becoming knowledgable about the tech for if (when?) it does become economically viable.

I assume what you're getting ready for is commercial and residential rooftop installations and their impact on the grid. California dabbled enough in grid-level solar facilities to know it's a terrible investment.

Originally Posted by Not Insane

If we are going to start powering all our vehicles with electricity, the only viable answer is nuclear. And there are plenty of "former" anti-nuclear activists that have come around. Just search their ted talks on Youtube.

[jmcslob]

Related kind of..
https://www.cleveland.com/open/2020/...outputType=amp

I used to drive between Perry and Brilliant, Ohio
I would run what they called "semi-toxic waste" from Perry to Brilliant.
Even tho it's not radiological any tooling and especially lubricant had to be stored at a separate location until deemed "safe".

[Not Insane]

Originally Posted by Oerets

There is little to be accomplished trying to change or open a mind that still thinks nuclear power is an answer.

A poison that keep on giving for many thousands of years in the future. I for one do not trust humans to contain the waste created so far.

So keep on thinking like there will be another planet to move on to when this one is done, because of our stupidity. The days of moving to the next valley once the old one is used up are long gone.

Well, there are plenty of previously "anti-nuclear" voices that are changing. I suspect we'll see a lot of nuclear as energy hungry cars start requiring ELECTRIC energy.

One of those voices is here (ted talk):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciStnd9Y2ak

And another (ted talk):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTKl5X72NIc

And another (ted talk):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoAcntoAVXE

And another (ted talk):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xph0t8Fp6uA

And articles:

http://nuclearconnect.org/know-nucle...nuclear-energy

Google Thorium salt reactors.

If electric cars actually catch on (when, not if), Nuclear will come back with a vengeance. It has to.

[Not Insane]

Originally Posted by FordGT90

I assume what you're getting ready for is commercial and residential rooftop installations and their impact on the grid. California dabbled enough in grid-level solar facilities to know it's a terrible investment.

Yep. I have a friend that makes his living installing solar. He even has 40 panels on his roof. His take on solar is that it is more expensive than any other commercial form of power generation, but has two advantages for homeowner rooftop solar:

1. If there is a power outage or brownout during the day, your solar will allow you to be unaffected.
2. SHTF - it will give you power after the world economy collapses.

Number two is real, but not really to be taken seriously. Number one is real and, maybe, possibly, could help - but probably rarely.

There is a third benefit: When I was fishing the Kenai river in alaska, we saw many homes that were solar powered because, well, there was no power grid there at all. It's solar/wind, or nothing.

[JJIII]

Rob, (Merrylander) used to speak of the benefits of thorium reactors in Canada.

[Not Insane]

Originally Posted by JJIII

Rob, (Merrylander) used to speak of the benefits of thorium reactors in Canada.

They seem to be making a comeback thanks to new tech.

BTW, here is a GREAT video called "how fear of nuclear ends".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mI6IzPCmIW8

Knowledge is power, and it is the best cure for fear of the unknown or misunderstood.