Why are Americans are so Dumb?

[Chicks]

Originally Posted by FordGT90

Disagreeing

So you're disagreeing with your original argument. Are you schizophrenic, by any chance?

[FordGT90]

Originally Posted by Chicks

So you're disagreeing with your original argument.

Let's rewind and press "play" again...

Talking about Green New Deal:

Originally Posted by FordGT90

Coal and oil industries would be decimated, as well as the transport industry (truck and train) transporting coil, oil, and oil products.

Originally Posted by Chicks

So, first you say it's going to be "decimated" by the Green New Deal, then you agree it's already been decimated for other reasons. ROFLMAO.

You repeated my initial statement in the former and I clarified disagreement in the latter:

Originally Posted by FordGT90

What's happening with coal is a natural attrition due to economic pressures.

Originally Posted by Chicks

So you're agreeing or disagreeing?

Because repetition was apparently required for clarification:

Originally Posted by FordGT90

Disagreeing because attrition ("a reduction in numbers usually as a result of resignation, retirement, or death") does not lead to decimation ("to reduce drastically especially in number"). Gentle versus painful. Economically natural versus politically forced.

[Chicks]

So after all that, you've agreed that the Green New Deal has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO with Coal's decimation, despite saying it did in the first place. You're not very good at this...

[donquixote99]

Originally Posted by FordGT90

You can't counter racist signaling because that's racist. It's a catch-22; hence, the entire topic is taboo.

I don't think we can discuss this stuff. You are way too clever for me

[FordGT90]

Originally Posted by Chicks

So after all that, you've agreed that the Green New Deal has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO with Coal's decimation, despite saying it did in the first place. You're not very good at this...

This is what coal attrition looks like:

Note the scale on the bottom.


This is what decimation of nuclear in Japan looks like because of the Fukashima disaster:

Again, note the scale on the bottom.

10+ years of attrition versus <1 year of decimation. Huge difference.


If the Green New Deal became law, American coal, nuclear, and natural gas would look like Japan's nuclear. That's over 80% of the electric generation capacity mothballed:
https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/...-in-the-us.php

Blackouts would be inevitable.

You can't change decades of investments in a decade. Power plants especially have a 20+ year service life.

[Chicks]

You are trying really hard to make a point, and failing miserably. You are that guy - the one who bores everyone to tears with endless PowerPoint presentations, but never does anything remotely meaningful at work. Sad. Us highly creative types always ignored your pessimism, came up with completely new, highly profitable ideas, and moved on, leaving your type to your endless meetings.

[Oerets]

Staying with fossil fuels is not an advancement a step forward in technology. That should be enough of an argument on it's own. Going to renewable more efficient cleaner sources, just how is this a bad thing?

Taking the climate issue out of the discussion for now. The new technologies and industries created would be beneficial. The country that is successful will be the leader in the years ahead. Someday soon it will be forced upon the world and those who prepare sooner then later will have advantages over those who do not.

Is the green new deal perfect? No just a starting point at the problem. One that has been ignored for way to long. The replacement cost of the damage already done far out weigh the seemingly affordable fossil fuels. Fracking oil spills gas leaks at pumps pollution ect....
Nuclear power also has the cleanup and storage is over looked in it's overall costs.

Just how will a advancement in our civilization ever happen if we continue to cling onto basic technologies our distant past discovered. If we ever wish to be masters of our environment. The need to understand and benefit without a thought for a quick profit or return for a few over the best for all humanity.
It will be hard and time consuming. The longer before undertaken the more so it will be.

So rather then throwing one hands up in surrender we should be rolling up our sleeves and going to work. Other countries are figuring it out and will be the leaders in the years ahead.

Is this acceptable?

[RickeyM]

Originally Posted by NipperDog

I can only imagine how we must look to other countries that did what they had to do, when it had to be done. What the hell is wrong with us? Why in the hell do we have to politicize EVERYTHING?

It makes perfect sense to be wearing a face covering while there's an (airborne) epidemic. I don't get it.

Because of politicians The particular politician in this case looks at everything through the lens of how everything affects him. Sadly, supported by a party that's enabled him every step of the way.

[FordGT90]

Originally Posted by Oerets

Going to renewable more efficient cleaner sources, just how is this a bad thing?

1) Renewables are not efficient at all. The most efficient means of energy extraction we have involves heat sources and steam pressure to drive turbines. A closed loop design that has some 60%+ efficiency.

2) Renewables are resource and land intensive. Wind and solar are literally both functions of surface area extracting side effects of sunlight as energy.

3) Renewables created the duck bill curve which is why PG&E fought and won to make people installing renewables pay for natural gas expansion to compensate for it.

Look at the graph in the last post of mine. For every MwH from renewables, at least two MwH was added in natural gas. Natural gas itself is an extremely potent greenhouse gas and when in terms of MwH, it's only half as bad as coal (still a crazy amount of carbon dioxide being pumped into the air).

If you want a 100% clean power grid that isn't resource intensive and is reliable, third and fourth generation nuclear reactors is the way to go.

Originally Posted by Oerets

Taking the climate issue out of the discussion for now. The new technologies and industries created would be beneficial. The country that is successful will be the leader in the years ahead. Someday soon it will be forced upon the world and those who prepare sooner then later will have advantages over those who do not.

Fusion, fusion, fusion. Once someone opens that can of worms, it will mark a new era of nearly free electricity. Renewables are a terrible intermediate step because it's still mostly natural gas which is a fossil fuel.

Originally Posted by Oerets

Is the green new deal perfect? No just a starting point at the problem. One that has been ignored for way to long. The replacement cost of the damage already done far out weigh the seemingly affordable fossil fuels. Fracking oil spills gas leaks at pumps pollution ect....
Nuclear power also has the cleanup and storage is over looked in it's overall costs.

It's not a starting point at all for all the reasons I gave. We need a revolution which satisfies all parties involved and that revolution is fusion.

LCOE (Levelized Cost Of Electricity) includes nuclear decommissioning. Because the waste is stored on site, that's also factored in to decommissioning.

Originally Posted by Oerets

Just how will a advancement in our civilization ever happen if we continue to cling onto basic technologies our distant past discovered.

Solar energy dates back to baking mud into bricks.
Wind dates back to sail boats and wind mills.
Hydro dates back to water powered mills and saws.
The newest tech we have available today is nuclear. It's roughly only 70 years old.

[Oerets]

There is little to be accomplished trying to change or open a mind that still thinks nuclear power is an answer.

A poison that keep on giving for many thousands of years in the future. I for one do not trust humans to contain the waste created so far.

So keep on thinking like there will be another planet to move on to when this one is done, because of our stupidity. The days of moving to the next valley once the old one is used up are long gone.