Betraying Progressives, DNC Platform Backs Fracking, TPP, and Israel Occupation

[Tom Joad]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

It's equally likely that she instructed her surrogates to throw the certain doners this cheap bone. The platform doesn't actually mean shit.

Are you really naive enough to buy that?

This is to give her cover.

Trump was right about that in his speech.

When she gets in office the TPP will slide right through.

Oh sure, there will be some "changes" made to placate the opposition but they will just be a bunch of meaningless weasel words. I know how this game is played. I've seen it happen too many times with regard to proposed Transportation projects during my career at the FDOT.

[Oerets]

Originally Posted by Rajoo

Please see my signature line for response.

Yes the better candidate by your statement is HRC. You will get no argument out of me. There always have been those who choose casting their vote more as a anti one. Nothing new this year.


Barney

[bobabode]

Originally Posted by Tom Joad

C'mon Bob. Cut the crap. She was all for the TPP until Bernie's opposition to it made it politically expedient for her to flip flop. Now that she's sure of the nomination she has instructed her surrogates on the platform committee to give it the thumbs down. That way she doesn't have to take the heat for flipping back.

Sure, Biff. Aren't they missing you at Caucus00percent?

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by icenine

It is a two way street. You seem to be very bitter lately about everyone who is not in line with your more than left of center leanings. The difference between you and me is that if Sanders would have won the primaries I would be supporting him right not, just like I supported Obama when he beat Clinton in 2008.
You seem to want it both ways: Sanders got screwed by the establishment Democrats. You never dwell on the fact that Sanders has not been a Democrat in Congress for the last 25 years. He decided to conveniently run as a Democrat because he knew he would have zero chance of winning on an independent platform in independent primaries. Nothing wrong with doing that but it is an example of opportunism; when Hillary does something like that she is power mad, corrupt, etc. When Bernie does it no one says anything about it. Has he released his tax-returns yet?
Tom Joad has insulted me about being a Federal Worker (and he is a retired Florida state employee if I am not mistaken), using Tricare (which is son uses), and not caring about those without health insurance, which is total bullshit. Joad has been sexist in his criticism of Hillary.
I don't think I have really insulted anyone to be honest in their support of Bernie. I have been rough on Trump supporters but I don't see anything wrong with that. I am sure I would have banned if I had crossed some line.
Remember that you guys have really been tough on Hillary also.
Sanders lost because he was not as good a candidate as Hillary. It had nothing to do with independents not being able to vote for him, and it was his responsibility to tell them what steps to take to be able to vote for him.
Plus being an independent just dilutes a voter's power anyway. When I voted I (like all us millions of voters in the California Democratic Party) could have chosen Sanders. I DID NOT along with 2.5 MILLION other voters who did NOT. The 2.5 million voters who voted for Hillary could have chosen Sanders. They didn't.
Here is the deal: You can't go back to a pre-globalization America. It is not going to happen because you can't change world-wide outsourcing. Now Trump and Sanders can promise this and it sounds good but it will never happen. There are losers in the globalization and we have to figure out what to do. Sanders and Trump do not appear to be the ones to figure it out. Maybe Hillary can. Maybe she won't. But the alternative is downright scary.
I am not going to beat up on the best choice we have when it comes to November 2016.

I don't want to have it both ways. I said in the post that I've been hard on Hillary but that I haven't treated her supporters with the disrespect that you and Bob dished out to Bernie's supporters.

And I don't dwell on the fact that Bernie hasn't been a Democrat for very long because I find it utterly meaningless. He has caucused with the Democrats for his entire Congressional career and has a voting record he can be proud of. And so should you. He's more of a Democrat than many I can think of, DWS for instance. And if you think Bernie was being opportunistic, you must hate it that Hillary carpetbagged her way into a New York Senate seat.

I have my issues with Joad and have called him on his bullshit more than once and I'll continue to do so. But it is not my job to defend you against him. That's your job.

Globalization is inevitable but the form it takes should be up to us, not toe capitalists and oligarchs. And there don't have to be losers. It's not a zero sum neoliberal game.

And it's not he difference between you and me that makes me unwilling to support Hillary. It's the difference between her and Bernie.

And he released his tax returns months ago. You need to pay better attention to these things.

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/0...-return-222041

[bobabode]

One year's tax returns and a bare bones summary at that? Pfffft.

[bobabode]

Originally Posted by Boreas

I don't want to have it both ways. I said in the post that I've been hard on Hillary but that I haven't treated her supporters with the disrespect that you and Bob dished out to Bernie's supporters.

And I don't dwell on the fact that Bernie hasn't been a Democrat for very long because I find it utterly meaningless. He has caucused with the Democrats for his entire Congressional career and has a voting record he can be proud of. And so should you. He's more of a Democrat than many I can think of, DWS for instance. And if you think Bernie was being opportunistic, you must hate it that Hillary carpetbagged her way into a New York Senate seat.

I have my issues with Joad and have called him on his bullshit more than once and I'll continue to do so. But it is not my job to defend you against him. That's your job.

Globalization is inevitable but the form it takes should be up to us, not toe capitalists and oligarchs. And there don't have to be losers. It's not a zero sum neoliberal game.

And it's not he difference between you and me that makes me unwilling to support Hillary. It's the difference between her and Bernie.

And he released his tax returns months ago. You need to pay better attention to these things.

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/0...-return-222041

This is the second time you've made this bullshit allegation. Give it a rest John. We're supposed to be allies.

[icenine]

Originally Posted by Boreas

I don't want to have it both ways. I said in the post that I've been hard on Hillary but that I haven't treated her supporters with the disrespect that you and Bob dished out to Bernie's supporters.

And I don't dwell on the fact that Bernie hasn't been a Democrat for very long because I find it utterly meaningless. He has caucused with the Democrats for his entire Congressional career and has a voting record he can be proud of. And so should you. He's more of a Democrat than many I can think of, DWS for instance. And if you think Bernie was being opportunistic, you must hate it that Hillary carpetbagged her way into a New York Senate seat.

I have my issues with Joad and have called him on his bullshit more than once and I'll continue to do so. But it is not my job to defend you against him. That's your job.

Globalization is inevitable but the form it takes should be up to us, not toe capitalists and oligarchs. And there don't have to be losers. It's not a zero sum neoliberal game.

And it's not he difference between you and me that makes me unwilling to support Hillary. It's the difference between her and Bernie.

And he released his tax returns months ago. You need to pay better attention to these things.

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/0...-return-222041

Tell me John all those people who voted for Hillary...why do you not see any legitimacy in that?

[bobabode]

Originally Posted by icenine

Tell me John all those people who voted for Hillary...why do you not see any legitimacy in that?

Naw, we're either stooges for the oligarchs or 'low information voters' in red states that don't what's good for us and don't matter in the grand schemes of the proletarian 'Revolution', doncha know?

[Rajoo]

Originally Posted by bobabode

If some decidedly mild criticism causes you and your cohort to consider voting for a Libertarian or Trump, y'all have some serious soul searching to do, John.

As to Raj shitting on the first AA Democratic president whilst fully cognizant of the most obstructive congress since the 1850s? Frack him, too.

So I cannot have an opinion contrary to yours and if do, it's defecating on the President? It's beyond exaggeration isn't it?

Originally Posted by bobabode

I would've cut John some slack had he gone after the blatant misogynistic shit employed by TJ and to a lesser extent by Raj but he didn't.

Color me nonplussed by his critique.

Now I am a misogynist simply because I believe Hillary is a rotten candidate for President. Again exaggerate much?

Originally Posted by icenine

I think anything you have said about Bernie has been done in the nature of good-natured ribbing and you always put a smiley face next to it. You have not been nearly as critical as John or Raj about Bernie as they have been about Hillary.

That's simply because Bernie is likable like Obama whereas Hillary is not and this is not simply my opinion. A majority of Americans think the same.

Originally Posted by bobabode

Like most Clintonistas, my tongue is a little bruised and battered from biting it these days.

I need a stiff bourbon and a spliff.

I will nominate your name to Pope Francis for a Sainthood Apprentice .

[Dondilion]

Clinton is too tainted to deliver any such program.