Betraying Progressives, DNC Platform Backs Fracking, TPP, and Israel Occupation

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by Boreas

That very much depends on where you live. Conventional wisdom would dictate that Pat and I live in "safe" states, ones that can be counted on to vote for the Democratic candidate. DQ, being in Ohio doesn't have the luxury of making a protest vote since Ohio could go either way.

This year, however, could be different, there are too many highly pissed off voters out there and pissed off voters can do really stupid shit like voting for Trump because Bernie's out. If enough people do stupid shit like that some of these safe states could become very unsafe.

Not a lot of love for der Trumpenfuhrer here. In fact, I have not encountered a single Trump supporter in MoCo, MD. Not one - thankfully. When I head out west hiking in the mountains of VA, MD and WV, I see a fair number. A strange, mostly inbred lot, I surmise.

[icenine]

Originally Posted by Boreas

I wouldn't say that winning 22 primaries constitutes crashing and burning, especially in the face of his own Party's efforts to defeat him.

And I'm getting pretty tired of all the derision we "Berniacs" have been getting from you and ice, especially when there's nothing of the sort going in your direction I've been pretty hard on Clinton, but not as hard as I could be or want to be, but I have yet to insult, denigrate and ridicule her supporters the way you two have. No wonder so many of Bernie's supporters are planning to vote for Trump and Johnson. You and the Clinton Campaign have made us feel decidedly unwelcome.

It is a two way street. You seem to be very bitter lately about everyone who is not in line with your more than left of center leanings. The difference between you and me is that if Sanders would have won the primaries I would be supporting him right not, just like I supported Obama when he beat Clinton in 2008.
You seem to want it both ways: Sanders got screwed by the establishment Democrats. You never dwell on the fact that Sanders has not been a Democrat in Congress for the last 25 years. He decided to conveniently run as a Democrat because he knew he would have zero chance of winning on an independent platform in independent primaries. Nothing wrong with doing that but it is an example of opportunism; when Hillary does something like that she is power mad, corrupt, etc. When Bernie does it no one says anything about it. Has he released his tax-returns yet?
Tom Joad has insulted me about being a Federal Worker (and he is a retired Florida state employee if I am not mistaken), using Tricare (which is son uses), and not caring about those without health insurance, which is total bullshit. Joad has been sexist in his criticism of Hillary.
I don't think I have really insulted anyone to be honest in their support of Bernie. I have been rough on Trump supporters but I don't see anything wrong with that. I am sure I would have banned if I had crossed some line.
Remember that you guys have really been tough on Hillary also.
Sanders lost because he was not as good a candidate as Hillary. It had nothing to do with independents not being able to vote for him, and it was his responsibility to tell them what steps to take to be able to vote for him.
Plus being an independent just dilutes a voter's power anyway. When I voted I (like all us millions of voters in the California Democratic Party) could have chosen Sanders. I DID NOT along with 2.5 MILLION other voters who did NOT. The 2.5 million voters who voted for Hillary could have chosen Sanders. They didn't.
Here is the deal: You can't go back to a pre-globalization America. It is not going to happen because you can't change world-wide outsourcing. Now Trump and Sanders can promise this and it sounds good but it will never happen. There are losers in the globalization and we have to figure out what to do. Sanders and Trump do not appear to be the ones to figure it out. Maybe Hillary can. Maybe she won't. But the alternative is downright scary.
I am not going to beat up on the best choice we have when it comes to November 2016.

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by icenine

It is a two way street. You seem to be very bitter lately about everyone who is not in line with your more than left of center leanings. The difference between you and me is that if Sanders would have won the primaries I would be supporting him right not, just like I supported Obama when he beat her in 2008.
You seem to want it both ways: Sanders got screwed by the establishment Democrats. You never dwell on the fact that Sanders has not been a Democrat in Congress for the last 25 years. He decided to conveniently run as a Democrat because he knew he would have zero chance of winning on an independent platform in independent primaries. Nothing wrong with doing that but it is an example of opportunism; when Hillary does something like that she is power mad, corrupt, etc. When Bernie does it no one says anything about it. Has he released his tax-returns yet?
Tom Joad has insulted me about being a Federal Worker (and he is a retired Florida state employee if I am not mistaken), using Tricare (which is son uses), and not caring about those without health insurance, which is total bullshit. Joad has been sexist in his criticism of Hillary.
I don't think I have really insulted anyone to be honest in their support of Bernie. I have been rough on Trump supporters but I don't see anything wrong with that. I am sure I would have banned if I had crossed some line.
Remember that you guys have really been tough on Hillary also.
Sanders lost because he was not as good a candidate as Hillary. It had nothing to do with independents not being able to vote for him, and it was his responsibility to tell them what steps to take to be able to vote for him.
Plus being an independent just dilutes a voter's power anyway. When I voted I (like all us millions of voters in California Democratic Party) could have chosen Sanders. I DID NOT along with 2.5 MILLION other voters who did NOT. The 2.5 million voters who voted for Hillary could have chosen Sanders. They didn't.
Here is the deal: You can't go back to a pre-globalization America. It is not going to happen because you can't change world-wide outsourcing. Now Trump and Sanders can promise this and it sounds good but it will never happen. There are losers in the globalization and we have to figure out what to do. Sanders and Trump do not appear to be the ones to figure it out. Maybe Hillary can. Maybe she won't. But the alternative is downright scary.
I am not going to beat up on the best choice we have when it comes to November 2016.

QFT. One could argue that Hillary is one of the worst major party candidates in years. One cannot argue, however, that Trump is better.

[bobabode]

Originally Posted by icenine

It is a two way street. You seem to be very bitter lately about everyone who is not in line with your more than left of center leanings. The difference between you and me is that if Sanders would have won the primaries I would be supporting him right not, just like I supported Obama when he beat Clinton in 2008.
You seem to want it both ways: Sanders got screwed by the establishment Democrats. You never dwell on the fact that Sanders has not been a Democrat in Congress for the last 25 years. He decided to conveniently run as a Democrat because he knew he would have zero chance of winning on an independent platform in independent primaries. Nothing wrong with doing that but it is an example of opportunism; when Hillary does something like that she is power mad, corrupt, etc. When Bernie does it no one says anything about it. Has he released his tax-returns yet?
Tom Joad has insulted me about being a Federal Worker (and he is a retired Florida state employee if I am not mistaken), using Tricare (which is son uses), and not caring about those without health insurance, which is total bullshit. Joad has been sexist in his criticism of Hillary.
I don't think I have really insulted anyone to be honest in their support of Bernie. I have been rough on Trump supporters but I don't see anything wrong with that. I am sure I would have banned if I had crossed some line.
Remember that you guys have really been tough on Hillary also.
Sanders lost because he was not as good a candidate as Hillary. It had nothing to do with independents not being able to vote for him, and it was his responsibility to tell them what steps to take to be able to vote for him.
Plus being an independent just dilutes a voter's power anyway. When I voted I (like all us millions of voters in the California Democratic Party) could have chosen Sanders. I DID NOT along with 2.5 MILLION other voters who did NOT. The 2.5 million voters who voted for Hillary could have chosen Sanders. They didn't.
Here is the deal: You can't go back to a pre-globalization America. It is not going to happen because you can't change world-wide outsourcing. Now Trump and Sanders can promise this and it sounds good but it will never happen. There are losers in the globalization and we have to figure out what to do. Sanders and Trump do not appear to be the ones to figure it out. Maybe Hillary can. Maybe she won't. But the alternative is downright scary.
I am not going to beat up on the best choice we have when it comes to November 2016.

I would've cut John some slack had he gone after the blatant misogynistic shit employed by TJ and to a lesser extent by Raj but he didn't.

Color me nonplussed by his critique.

[icenine]

Originally Posted by bobabode

I would've cut John some slack had he gone after the blatant misogynistic shit employed by TJ and to a lesser extent by Raj but he didn't.

Color me nonplussed by his critique.

I think anything you have said about Bernie has been done in the nature of good-natured ribbing and you always put a smiley face next to it. You have not been nearly as critical as John or Raj about Bernie as they have been about Hillary.

[Zeke]

I'm not big on TPP, fracking or unilateral support of Israel. This knowledge...displeases me.

I'm hoping it is merely a starting point for negotiation and not The Plan.

[bobabode]

Originally Posted by icenine

I think anything you have said about Bernie has been done in the nature of good-natured ribbing and you always put a smiley face next to it. You have not been nearly as critical as John or Raj about Bernie as they have been about Hillary.

Like most Clintonistas, my tongue is a little bruised and battered from biting it these days.

I need a stiff bourbon and a spliff.

[bobabode]

Originally Posted by Zeke

I'm not big on TPP, fracking or unilateral support of Israel. This knowledge...displeases me.

I'm hoping it is merely a starting point for negotiation and not The Plan.

It is a starting point, Zeke.

She's repeatedly stated her opposition to TPP, since the details came out. TPP needs to go back to the drawing board imo.

As to fracking, her position is the same as Obama's, it's a bridge fuel source towards a carbon neutral future and she's cool with individual states like NY banning it.

Israel is a political third rail but I don't believe she's in any way aligned with Netanyahu's Likudniks.

[Tom Joad]

Originally Posted by bobabode

She's repeatedly stated her opposition to TPP, since the details came out.

C'mon Bob. Cut the crap. She was all for the TPP until Bernie's opposition to it made it politically expedient for her to flip flop. Now that she's sure of the nomination she has instructed her surrogates on the platform committee to give it the thumbs down. That way she doesn't have to take the heat for flipping back.

[donquixote99]

Originally Posted by Tom Joad

C'mon Bob. Cut the crap. She was all for the TPP until Bernie came along and made it politically expedient for her to flip flop. Now that she's sure of the nomination she has instructed her surrogates on the platform committee to give it the thumbs down. That way she doesn't have to take the heat for flipping back.

It's equally likely that she instructed her surrogates to throw the certain doners this cheap bone. The platform doesn't actually mean shit.