Traitors wave the Confederate flag

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by matteos

You are the descendant of slaves and yet you speak up for a flag that enslaved your ancestors and would have enslaved you too if not for the North and the victory of the Stars and Stripes.

Exactly. It makes no sense to me that ANYONE supports the "ownership" of other human beings. And the ridiculous assertion that I see all over the web that the Confederacy, Secession and the Civil War had nothing to do with slavery and that the slavery in question wasn't overwhelmingly based on race and that the symbol of that system had nothing to do with any of it........ drives me crazy.

I don't get what is so hard to understand about that. Is it just because, "It was MY ancestors, so it had to be good!"? I dunno. I had ancestors that fought on the Confederate side and ancestors that took the Loyalist stand before that. But, you don't see anything but the AMERICAN flag flying anywhere on my property. No British flags, no Confederate flags, only the American flag. Because, IMHO, the only one that did the right thing was the one that moved his family to Ohio and joined the UNION Army and fought to hold this country together and drive down what he referred to as "...the greatest evil of our time.".

Regards,
Dave

[donquixote99]

He doesn't think the flag stands for slavery, not anymore if it ever did. It stands for fighting the damn yankees, who invaded the south way back when and badmouth it now. And it stands for his friends and neighbors who mostly aren't racist, either not at all, or no more than is understandable....

Is any identity more than ideas in people's heads? I could raise up a child to think he was a animal, and he'd be unable to talk and walk like a man, but there'd be no reason for these limitations except what he believed. Identity is mostly limits we believe in.

[Pio1980]

Anyone that bothers to read the articles of secession and understands what happened at Ft Sumpter knows exactly by actual history what it represents.
That it has defined a region and people for so long after the end of the American Civil War is hard to understand without the historical travesty of the lost cause myth.

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[Boreas]

Originally Posted by Pio1980

And that is your opinion, why?

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Don t worry, Steve. He can "tolerate" it.

[donquixote99]

Should we like or dislike Hillbilly because of what he thinks about the Civil War? Should he like or dislike us on those grounds?

We're pretty much in that silly space where two sides each dislike the other because the other dislikes them.

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

He doesn't think the flag stands for slavery, not anymore if it ever did. It stands for fighting the damn yankees, who invaded the south way back when and badmouth it now. And it stands for his friends and neighbors who mostly aren't racist, either not at all, or no more than is understandable....

Is any identity more than ideas in people's heads? I could raise up a child to think he was a animal, and he'd be unable to talk and walk like a man, but there'd be no reason for these limitations except what he believed. Identity is mostly limits we believe in.

I see what you're getting at, but still......... Speaking for myself, as I stated some of them were my people too. The difference is that I don't care about that. Just because they were my ancestors doesn't make them right. Friends and neighbors even less so.

Originally Posted by Pio1980

Anyone that bothers to read the articles of secession and understands what happened at Ft Sumpter knows exactly by actual history what it represents.
That it has defined a region and people for so long after the end of the American Civil War is hard to understand without the historical travesty of the lost cause myth.

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^^^Agreed.^^^

[matteos]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

Should we like or dislike Hillbilly because of what he thinks about the Civil War? Should he like or dislike us on those grounds?

We're pretty much in that silly space where two sides each dislike the other because the other dislikes them.

I don't think there's a reason to make this personal in here.

But it is myopic to wave that flag and think it stands only for southern pride.

It doesn't. Its stands for secession and slavery.

There is only one flag for this country.

I'm British, an immigrant.. I don't fly the Union Jack in the USA and I'm sure I would get abuse if I did. I do in fact own a Red Coat outfit (from a costume party). I don't parade up and down in it on the 4th of July (Would probably get punched). It's about respect. I respect this country and its values. Flying a flag that is the antithesis of these values is disrespectful at best.

[d-ray657]

Originally Posted by matteos

I don't think there's a reason to make this personal in here.

But it is myopic to wave that flag and think it stands only for southern pride.

It doesn't. Its stands for secession and slavery.

There is only one flag for this country.

I'm British, an immigrant.. I don't fly the Union Jack in the USA and I'm sure I would get abuse if I did. I do in fact own a Red Coat outfit (from a costume party). I don't parade up and down in it on the 4th of July (Would probably get punched). It's about respect. I respect this country and its values. Flying a flag that is the antithesis of these values is disrespectful at best.

I hope that this does not come off as sounding like some sort of xenophobe, but because you were raised elsewhere, I can see why you might see the display of the rebel flag as a form of expression that would be subject to punishment. My limited exposure to the law of other countries, including Britain, reveals that very few if any other countries value freedom of expression as highly as we do under US law. I would not want to be associated with that symbol (the confederate flag) in any way. It represents much that is hateful. But even hateful speech is protected expression. The cliche is that if the First Amendment only protected popular speech, its free speech provisions would have no meaning at all. Popular speech needs no protection.

Regards,

D-Ray

[icenine]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

Should we like or dislike Hillbilly because of what he thinks about the Civil War? Should he like or dislike us on those grounds?

We're pretty much in that silly space where two sides each dislike the other because the other dislikes them.

The flag is more of a symbol against the Civil Rights movement...it was put up in 1961.

Would you invite a white supremacist (not a relative) to your house?
I wouldn't.

[Rajoo]

Waving the Confederate flag is protected speech and I can appreciate that, but if the people doing so are ridiculed, that's also free speech. You should accept that without any griping.

And BTW, how did you feel when this illegal immigrant waved a Mexican flag while receiving her degree from UCSD?



As an undocumented immigrant walked across the stage to accept her diploma from the University Of California – San Diego, she proudly unfurled a large green, white and red Mexican flag.

http://www.bizpacreview.com/2015/06/...#ixzz3g6j3L8hh

Hint: Our tax dollars helped to educate her!