U.S. Marshal Rips Phone From Hands Of Recording Bystander

[icenine]

Originally Posted by Boreas

Freddie Gray died in the hospital a week after the arrest. He suffered a crushed larynx and several fractured cervical vertebrae which resulted in his spinal column being almost completely severed.

We don't know whether he suffered the fatal injuries before being loaded in the van, after being loaded or both. The citizen video doesn't show anything before Gray was lifted from the ground and dragged to the van and there is no video of his trip inside the van.

This is purely conjecture but I think the injuries to his larynx and vertebrae were inflicted by a cop who dropped his knee on the back of Gray's neck. Gray's neck may been resting on the curb at that time. The fact that Gray was screaming in pain and had no control over his legs as he was dragged to the van supports this.

Also supporting this are Gray's pleas, while in the van, for an inhaler. Gray was asthmatic and was having trouble breathing. It's possible that the injury to his spinal column had begun to manifest itself as difficulty in breathing and that it wasn't an asthma attack at all. In response to Gray's pleas, the cops stopped the van, went into the back and put Gray in leg irons.

The next phase would be the "nickel ride", a.k.a. "rattling the can", a.k.a. "screen test", the practice of bouncing a restrained suspect off the inside walls of the van by erratic and violent driving. If this were done, it's easy to understand how Gray went from having difficulty in breathing during his ride to being unresponsive and not breathing at all when he was unloaded.

As an expert in x-raying necks in Emergency Rooms for the last 20 years my gut tells me that he was not severely injured before the van although it is a possiblility. He most assuredly was not given the proper standard of care for those with suspected spinal cord/neck injury: a trip to the ER in an ambulance with full c-spine precautions i.e. neck brace and and strapped to a spine board.

Maybe the police were more focused on the nickel ride that calling 911 for an ambulance. Has their internal investigation given a sequence of events?

[Ike Bana]

Originally Posted by icenine

As an expert in x-raying necks in Emergency Rooms for the last 20 years my gut tells me that he was not severely injured before the van although it is a possiblility. He most assuredly was not given the proper standard of care for those with suspected spinal cord/neck injury: a trip to the ER in an ambulance with full c-spine precautions i.e. neck brace and and strapped to a spine board.

Maybe the police were more focused on the nickel ride that calling 911 for an ambulance. Has their internal investigation given a sequence of events?

The way this guy was screaming and the way he was dragged to the police van indicated to me that he was hurt pretty badly when the cops got to him. If there's some way to prove that something was done to him to in the van to almost sever his spine, hopefully that will come out. It's pretty hard to sever a spine. The only way I think that could have happened is if one or more of the officers stomped him, and stomped him severely in the van...which I suppose is possible. The crushed larynx is disturbing though. I'm not sure you can make the kind of noise Gray was making when videoed being dragged into the cop van, or ask for medical care as the police confirmed he did, with a crushed larynx. So maybe that's evidence enough that he was stomped in the van. But the undeniable fact that we have so far, as confirmed by the Mayor of Baltimore and the Baltimore Police Commissioner, is that Gray pleaded for medical care and the cops ignored him. They killed the guy.

[Pio1980]

You suppose kneeling on his back did some damage?

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[Ike Bana]

Originally Posted by Pio1980

You suppose kneeling on his back did some damage?

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I don't think you can sever anybody's spine by kneeling on it. You can be pretty successful at it by rolling a guy over on his face and stomping his spine though. But to be fair...Freddie Gray was pretty clearly unable to walk when the cops dragged him off the street and into the van. So who knows. But they didn't get him medical attention promptly, there's no argument about that.

Thirty years ago or so, worked with a guy who was a retired member of the Chicago area Outlaws MC. We were hanging out chatting one day and he mentioned that in the couple of years since he had left the club he had probably lost around 75 pounds. So I asked why so many MC members are so big, and Danny says, from all the beer. But he also said that many purposefully carry a lot of weight because there are a lot of fights, and the bigger you are, the harder it is to knock you down. And you don't want to go down, because if you go down, you get stomped...and if you get stomped its a good chance that if you survive, you never walk again.

[Zeke]

As previously indicated, if Gray's spine was injured during the arrest, that's unfortunate but on him: don't create a need to be taken to the ground and you won't be grounded.

Malicious injury in the van? That's criminal.

But general policy has been subdue, restrain, transport then analyze medically once at county (at least around here). There are SO many ridiculous fakers and offender attorney ambulance chasers that vocalizations and the like are -- appropriately -- ignored. If an offender refuses to be restrained by mere cuffs? It's shackle time...hoods are possible if you're a violent felony warrant offender...

But typically? Hell, once an offender was in a cruiser or wagon, you didn't even want to look in on them.

Offender: "He hit me during travel!"
Officer: "Judge, I didn't even open the door."
Judge: "Get him (offender) out of here..."

Bottom line? Gray killed himself by running from police and being unlawfully armed. Don't do that, none of this ever occurs.

[Ike Bana]

No suspect ever deserves to live.

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by Zeke

As previously indicated, if Gray's spine was injured during the arrest

That was me theorizing. So far, that's not established.

Also, there's such a thing as excessive force. If the cops slammed him into a bike rack or did a knee drop on Gray's neck, that's excessive.

Malicious injury in the van? That's criminal.

Taking an injured arrestee (video evidence) and tossing him unsecured into the van (acknowledged) would qualify as criminal negligence at least. Then giving him a "rough ride", causing terminal injuries or aggravating existing injuries to a terminal level, is at the very least negligent homicide.

Bottom line? Gray killed himself by running from police and being unlawfully armed. Don't do that, none of this ever occurs.

Last time I checked, being fatally injured by the cops wasn't suicide.

Last time I checked, running from the police wasn't a capital offense.

Last time I checked, cops were not empowered to act as judge and jury.

[Ike Bana]

You just don't get it john...when it comes to cops and the rest of us....we all got it comin' kid.

[Zeke]

You don't understand: if you're not an offender, law breaker, criminal or miscreant?

Then you don't have issues with cops.

[donquixote99]

But if your brake light breaks, you're dead.