Gun Control Isn't Popular With Most Americans

[Ike Bana]

Originally Posted by Boreas

I'm not.

Thus making expatriation even more attractive.

[donquixote99]

Originally Posted by nailer

A reason why citizens had the right to bear arms. The National Guard abrogated this reason.

Nope. National guard isn't militia, it's just a branch of the standing army.

But the reason was abrogated by the general militia, which never had the slightest interest in the national security mission, or in being well-regulated for it.

[nailer]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

Nope. National guard isn't militia, it's just a branch of the standing army.

But the reason was abrogated by the general militia, which never had the slightest interest in the national security mission, or in being well-regulated for it.

The National Guard are state militias funded by the Federal government. The Reserves are part of the national military and the Guard is not unless federalized (done on a unit by unit basis and assigned to the force requesting COCOM).

[donquixote99]

Select militia if you insist....

Main point is the general militia never stood up as envisioned.

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by nailer

The National Guard are state militias funded by the Federal government. The Reserves are part of the national military and the Guard is not unless nationalized (done on a unit by unit basis).

This is correct. That's why they're organized as, for instance the California Air National Guard. The Commander In Chief of a state National Guard is that state's governor.

For them to be sent overseas or in some way integrated into the regular armed forces it's necessary for them to be "federalized". This was always true, even for the state militias in the early days of the country. George Washington had to federalize the Pennsylvania (and, I believe, the New York and Maryland Militias) to put down the Whiskey Rebellion in the 1790s.

[nailer]

^^^
The Guard has been known to drive the army nuts. The next to last report I worked on was on the army's Chemical Corp which consists of active, reserve and guard companies. The NC Guard is suppose to have a BIDS unit and FORSCOM thought they did until our exit conference.

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

Select militia if you insist....

Main point is the general militia never stood up as envisioned.

In the South they were basically used as slave patrols. It's why many of the Southern delegates to the Constitutional Convention demanded them. They were terrified by the prospect of a slave revolt, especially since the slave population rivaled that of the white population and in some states exceeded it.

Until the War of 1812, where there was extensive use of the various state militias, the only time they were ever used in a military capacity was the Whiskey Rebellion. In the earlier Shays' Rebellion, before the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, militias were used but they were raised for the purpose by private individuals.

So, I think we have a couple of instances where they operated as intended, once to put down a tax revolt and once to repel and invading army.

[nailer]

Wasn't the Civil War primarily fought by federalized militias? The citizens joined a state militia unit which was then federalized and sent to the army. Of course the citizens joined these militia units knowing they were going to be part a federal/national army. Then the draft came because there weren't enough volunteers once the fields turned red.

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by nailer

Wasn't the Civil War primarily fought by federalized militias? The citizens joined a state militia unit which was then federalized and sent to the army. Of course the citizens joined these militia units knowing they were going to be part a federal/national army. Then the draft came because there weren't enough volunteers once the fields turned red.

Yeah, you got me on that one.

During the War of 1812 the militias got the shit licked out of them so the federal government began getting serious about creating a standing army. By the time of the Civil War, though we still had state militias, their readiness was even more of a joke than it was in 1812. Most were virtually untrained but they were federalized anyway because the total size of our army was 16,000 men.... and a lot of those were in the South.

[donquixote99]

Originally Posted by Boreas

In the South they were basically used as slave patrols. It's why many of the Southern delegates to the Constitutional Convention demanded them. They were terrified by the prospect of a slave revolt, especially since the slave population rivaled that of the white population and in some states exceeded it.

Until the War of 1812, where there was extensive use of the various state militias, the only time they were ever used in a military capacity was the Whiskey Rebellion. In the earlier Shays' Rebellion, before the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, militias were used but they were raised for the purpose by private individuals.

So, I think we have a couple of instances where they operated as intended, once to put down a tax revolt and once to repel and invading army.

If you call that "repelling...."