Darren Wilson's Side of the Story

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by finnbow

Generally no, but I don't project these feelings upon a specific case, preferring to focus on relevant, verified facts.

Also, I believe that blacks are more likely to be arrested for certain infractions (e.g., pot possession), but that this is partially a result of a greater police presence in the parts of cities with the highest crime rates. Once a suspect is in front of a judge or jury, I believe the criminal justice system fares better and is mostly color-blind.

Oh, my.

There are studies galore that prove the opposite. Black conviction rates are higher and sentences longer than for whites.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB100014...04463789858002

I don't really understand the way in which you see (don't see) the issues here.

John

John

[finnbow]

Opinions...opinions...are like assholes. Everybody's got one.

Originally Posted by Ike Bana

The fucking answer finn is, no...

Why am I not surprised that you don't see the irony here?

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by Boreas

Oh, my.

There are studies galore that prove the opposite. Black conviction rates are higher and sentences longer than for whites.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB100014...04463789858002

I don't really understand the way in which you see (don't see) the issues here.

John

From the article:

...they (the judges) "make sentencing decisions based on many legitimate considerations that are not or cannot be measured."

Still, the findings drew criticism from advocacy groups and researchers, who said the commission's focus on the very end of the criminal-justice process ignored possible bias at earlier stages, such as when a person is arrested and charged, or enters into a plea deal with prosecutors.

"They've only got data on this final slice of the process, but they are still missing crucial parts of the criminal-justice process."


My qualified "yes" answer, castigated by Ike, said much the same thing (i.e., it's a lot more complex than a simple "yes" or "no.")

That's why I generally avoid answering or putting too much faith in such polls, particularly ones that try to distill complex questions into simple answers.

Again, I certainly do believe that, in general, minorities aren't always treated equally by the judicial system. However, I'm far less certain as to the exact reasons why and doubt that there is a simple answer. If you've distilled it down to a simple answer, good for you. I haven't.

[donquixote99]

Originally Posted by Boreas

Oh, my.

There are studies galore that prove the opposite. Black conviction rates are higher and sentences longer than for whites.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB100014...04463789858002

I don't really understand the way in which you see (don't see) the issues here.

John

Finn insists people see what they want to see in the Wilson case. But he too sees (and doesn't see) what he wants.

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

Finn insists people see what they want to see in the Wilson case. But he too sees (and doesn't see) what he wants.

Fair enough, though I feel that I'm a lot less influenced by innuendo, rumor, irrelevant facts and political ideology than some here.

[donquixote99]

It's like this Finn. People in 2014 know they aren't supposed to discriminate. So they always find other, often complex ways to do what they do, and describe what they do. But it's funny how things work out, overall, in aggregate.

It's just lots of lots of people, just doing their jobs, and having reasons, good or not so good, with complexity and nuance, for myriads of choices, big and small. The beginning of understanding is to get that the reasons articulated for many things, probably most things, are mainly rationalizations for unexamined motivations.

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

It's like this Finn. People in 2014 know they aren't supposed to discriminate. So they always find other, often complex ways to do what they do, and describe what they do. But it's funny how things work out, overall, in aggregate.

It's just lots of lots of people, just doing their jobs, and having reasons, good or not so good, with complexity and nuance, for myriads of choices, big and small. The beginning of understanding is to get that the reasons articulated for many things, probably most things, are mainly rationalizations for unexamined motivations.

And are you somehow implying that you're immune to this dynamic in your views of what occurred in Ferguson?

If you put faith in the poll results, I (a raging Independent) may be one of the few on this board able to look at the events there objectively and dispassionately.

[donquixote99]

A blatant example is the bad cop in Tulia Texas some years back. He had a stash of cocaine, and every pay period he'd claim that, working undercover, he'd gotten a black person or two to try to sell him some. The cases were all bogus, there was never any evidence at all except his word and the coke he'd turn in. He was a rotten liar who got a huge proportion of the black population of Tulia thrown in prison.

But despite many of the cases being obviously bad, none of the other good white citizens of the criminal justice system ever saw a thing wrong. For years. It had to wait for advocacy groups to finally get enough pressure up for outside investigations to happen to blow the thing up.

And many in Tulia still don't believe it. Further, most will tell you it was all the one bad cop's fault. That's what seeing what you want to see can do.

[donquixote99]

Originally Posted by finnbow

And are you somehow implying that you're immune to this dynamic in your views of what occurred in Ferguson?

If you put faith in the poll results, I (a raging Independent) may be one of the few on this board able to look at the events there objectively and dispassionately.

I'm trying to look deeper. That's all anyone can do.

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

A blatant example is the bad cop in Tulia Texas some years back. He had a stash of cocaine, and every pay period he'd claim that, working undercover, he'd gotten a black person or two to try to sell him some. The cases were all bogus, there was never any evidence at all except his word and the coke he'd turn in. He was a rotten liar who got a huge proportion of the black population of Tulia thrown in prison.

But despite many of the cases being obviously bad, none of the other good white citizens of the criminal justice system ever saw a thing wrong. For years. It had to wait for advocacy groups to finally get enough pressure up for outside investigations to happen to blow the thing up.

And many in Tulia still don't believe it. Further, most will tell you it was all the one bad cop's fault. That's what seeing what you want to see can do.

I'm less willing than you to extrapolate deeper meaning from this incident. As for the bolded comment, most would be right. Our system of justice is not set up to prosecute a class of people for the misdeeds of an individual. This was not a conspiracy (from what you described). Are you advocating for the prosecution of the whole town?