To the curb, woman!!

[noonereal]

IMHO all Americans should serve, no exceptions.

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by noonereal

IMHO all Americans should serve, no exceptions.

In general, I can support that theory, providing things like the Peace Corp count as service.

Military conscription to carry out global Manifest Destiny/Imperialism just doesn't work for me.

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by Zeke

True. But -- perhaps -- she should place blame where it belongs?

I presume that her son volunteered, and reported when assigned, for said duty?

CHOICE!!

If you think it's a grand misadventure, as I do, you just don't go (or enlist).

A lot of guys enlisted after 9/11 due to their patriotic zeal (a good thing - think Pat Tillman). But they signed up to kick Osama's ass, not Saddam's. Once they're signed up, desertion in time of war is a capital offense even for our ill-fated misadventure in Iraq.

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by finnbow

A lot of guys enlisted after 9/11 due to their patriotic zeal (a good thing - think Pat Tillman). But they signed up to kick Osama's ass, not Saddam's. Once they're signed up, desertion in time of war is a capital offense even for our ill-fated misadventure in Iraq.

Nationalist zeal is what got us the Reich: I'm not a fan.

That said, are we at "war?" Did I miss a formal declaration?

Sure, I get your point, but -- again -- you can say, "no." There's just a price to be paid. (I tend to believe that Ali's choice has been well vindicated?)

Metaphorically, Osama bloodied our nose and we overreacted by swatting flies with Buicks... And they weren't even the right flies...

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by Zeke

Nationalist zeal is what got us the Reich: I'm not a fan.

That said, are we at "war?" Did I miss a formal declaration?

Sure, I get your point, but -- again -- you can say, "no." There's just a price to be paid. (I tend to believe that Ali's choice has been well vindicated?)

Metaphorically, Osama bloodied our nose and we overreacted by swatting flies with Buicks... And they weren't even the right flies...

I don't necessarily disagree with any of your points. OTOH, I'm reluctant to criticize this tortured and troubled woman. Having never been mothers, I'm not sure either of us can fully understand her grief or her chosen coping methodologies.

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by finnbow

I don't necessarily disagree with any of your points. OTOH, I'm reluctant to criticize this tortured and troubled woman. Having never been mothers, I'm not sure either of us can fully understand her grief or her chosen coping methodologies.

True, no doubt.

[noonereal]

Originally Posted by Zeke

In general, I can support that theory, providing things like the Peace Corp count as service.

Military conscription to carry out global Manifest Destiny/Imperialism just doesn't work for me.

Yes the Peace Corps counts and I think if our army were made up of all socioeconomic groups going to war in Iraq may have been looked at closer and challenged stronger.

[d-ray657]

Originally Posted by noonereal

Yes the Peace Corps counts and I think if our army were made up of all socioeconomic groups going to war in Iraq may have been looked at closer and challenged stronger.

Uh . . I think I agree with you there.

Actually, not only that, the officer corps would likely have a different face, the experience with different people might bring the youts back with a more tolerant and respectful attitude toward other citizens, and people who served would have a greater sense of ownership in the country, rather than entitlement. I think Blue Streak is a good example of that. I'm sure there are others here who have had that experience, but I recall Dave recounting how the time in the service affected him.

Regards,

D-Ray

[noonereal]

Originally Posted by d-ray657

Uh . . I think I agree with you there.

Actually, not only that, the officer corps would likely have a different face, the experience with different people might bring the youts back with a more tolerant and respectful attitude toward other citizens, and people who served would have a greater sense of ownership in the country, rather than entitlement. I think Blue Streak is a good example of that. I'm sure there are others here who have had that experience, but I recall Dave recounting how the time in the service affected him.

Regards,

D-Ray

very good points

[rickr15]

Originally Posted by Zeke

Metaphorically, Osama bloodied our nose and we overreacted by swatting flies with Buicks... And they weren't even the right flies...

You would not believe how many people I talk to who insist that Iraq was somehow involved in 9/11.
I wonder whoever could have insinuated this to the uneducated masses?

As for Bin laden he was a useful boogeyman/tool or he would have been whacked at Tora Bora. (IMO)