18 and Dead.

[Tom Joad]

Originally Posted by bobabode

'Ain't this boogie a mess?'

The beatings will continue until morale improves.

[4-2-7]

Originally Posted by Tom Joad

Thirty five feet gets you a first down and then some.

Actually according to the eyewitnesses the officer was 20 feet from the car when he shot Brown and Brown was 35 feet from the car when he was shot.

That qualifies as a chase in my book. As soon as the officer exited the vehicle and took one step after Brown he was in pursuit as far as I am concerned.

Originally Posted by finnbow

Thank God you're not an investigator.

Originally Posted by Tom Joad

Show me where anything I said was wrong in the post of mine you quoted.

[bobabode]

Originally Posted by Tom Joad

The beatings will continue until morale improves.

<falsetto voce> "Whip me, beat me! Jus' don't draw blood..."

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by Tom Joad

According to what I have been reading the kid was shot 35 feet from the car.

And the cop was 20 feet from the car when he shot him.

In which direction? (sigh)

Originally Posted by Tom Joad

Five yards is about the practical range of a handgun for hitting a man sized target under duress despite what most people will allude to.

With practice that can be stretched but the point rings true.

Originally Posted by Tom Joad

As for someone being a threat when they are unarmed and have their hands up at what did you say? 35 feet, that's bullshit.

Sorry, it's not. At that distance, an assailant is on you in <5 seconds. The odds (see your own lack of accuracy point, above) of making an instantaneously debilitating hit on a moving target before he can reach you is nil, especially in the throes of an ongoing altercation.

Thirty-five feet is WELL in the pickle barrel.

Originally Posted by Tom Joad

This officer had his gun drawn. Even at 15 feet, there is no way an unarmed person standing still with their hands up is a threat to an armed person with their gun drawn. I don't care if it's Usain Bolt, there's no way he can get to you before your bullet gets to him.

You've just never conducted any real analysis on this beyond ridiculous emotionalism, have you?

1. A single bullet rarely does the trick.
2. That's why you're trained to fire until threat neutralization.
3. Your bullet "getting to him" is not when the clock stops on danger.

Once the deadly harm to you (or the public) threshold is reached? You fire, and keep firing, until your assailant is incapacitated and/or outside of the Tueller Danger Zone. That's the way it is trained.

Your entitled projection of taking a deep breath, weighing odds, invoking external morality, personal rationalization and/or otherwise pretending you possess situational gravitas merely highlights that you don't know what the fuck you're talking about

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by Tom Joad

So we're going to discount the eyewitness accounts?

Originally Posted by Tom Joad

Show me where anything I said was wrong in the post of mine you quoted.

An investigator first gathers all the facts before starting his analysis. Above all, he does not have a preconceived notion of what occurred. In this instance, he would work with forensic evidence and sworn depositions. I'm not sure any such thing is yet available.

FWIW, I was a trained accident investigator involved in investigating a number of large industrial accidents involving fatalities. As the head of an accident investigation team, I would have fired you the first instant you jumped to such conclusions - probably 5-6 days ago.

[Tom Joad]

Originally Posted by finnbow

An investigator first gathers all the facts before starting his analysis. Above all, he does not have a preconceived notion of what occurred. In this instance, he would work with forensic evidence and sworn depositions. I'm not sure any such thing is yet available.

FWIW, I was a trained accident investigator involved in investigating a number of large industrial accidents involving fatalities. As the head of an accident investigation team, I would have fired you the first instant you jumped to such conclusions - probably 5-6 days ago.

In other words you can't find anything in that post that was wrong.

[nailer]

Originally Posted by Zeke

Because you are the backup. (Jesus Christ, I am BEGGING for a head banging against a brick wall smiley.) If a suspect becomes violent in public you cannot wait and hide because your job is to protect the public.

You react, using years of cognitive training, to stop the threat to yourself (and the public) using whatever means necessary up to and including lethal force.

Seriously? Roll up the window and wait for backup? Seriously?

Calling for back-up is not waiting for back-up. Discretion is the better part of valor. Seriously, kill the teen instead.

Why not answer Joe Friday's specific questions instead if going Rambo on the rhetorical one about good/bad policing.

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by Tom Joad

In other words you can't find anything in that post that was wrong.

Your jumping to conclusions since day one is what's wrong. Wrong enough to get you fired if you were involved in any real investigation.

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by Tom Joad

Show me where anything I said was wrong in the post of mine you quoted.

I'll go with the part where you presume to know a damned thing legally, morally, ethically, situationally, in context, via training, posted from the front edge of the blue line and/or that makes the barest form of rational sense.

You're spouting emotionalist buffoonery not based in actual analysis.

[Tom Joad]

Originally Posted by Zeke

Sorry, it's not. At that distance, an assailant is on you in <5 seconds. The odds (see your own lack of accuracy point, above) of making an instantaneously debilitating hit on a moving target before he can reach you is nil, especially in the throes of an ongoing altercation.

Thirty-five feet is WELL in the pickle barrel.

The officer had his gun drawn.

If he is trained right he brings his weapon up and puts the front sight on the target and squeezes the trigger all in one motion. Ain't no way Usain Bolt gets more than one step before that bullet hims him.