Donald Trump Lost Today. It's Over.

[barbara]

Originally Posted by Pio1980

It's more complicated than that as an ethical consideration, leaving religion out.
Is a fetus a person, or personal property of the host until birth? Both? Something else?


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Yes, very complicated.

I always knew right where I stood on abortion until I delivered twins six months into my pregnancy. Now my feelings are very complicated.

What I do know is that I have no business telling another what they should do if they face the decision.

[Dondilion]

Originally Posted by barbara

Yes, very complicated.

I always knew right where I stood on abortion until I delivered twins six months into my pregnancy. Now my feelings are very complicated.

What I do know is that I have no business telling another what they should do if they face the decision.

Abortion in general has a corrosive effect on societies.

[Pio1980]

Informed family planning is one way to deal with managing things. Unfortunately, the formost resource for women has been driven into near extinction for political gain.
Otherwise I'm with Barbara on this as far as the State playing gynecologist.
Unwanted pregnancies are unfortunate, many times unintended, sometimes imposed as a control tactic. There are also obviously medical considerations as to appropriateness.

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[Boreas]

Originally Posted by Pio1980

Informed family planning is one way to deal with managing things. Unfortunately, the formost resource for women has been driven into near extinction for political gain.
Otherwise I'm with Barbara on this as far as the State playing gynecologist.
Unwanted pregnancies are unfortunate, many times unintended, sometimes imposed as a control tactic. There are also obviously medical considerations as to appropriateness.

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The right wing assault on family planning will increase the number of unwanted pregnancies as well as an increase in STDs. Combine that with overturning Roe v. Wade by a Pence Supreme Court and the number of unwanted births will go through the roof.

[bobabode]

Originally Posted by Dondilion

Abortion in general has a corrosive effect on societies.

Only to those that think their sky faery holds dominance over every citizen whether they believe in said faery or not.

[Rajoo]

The only fair way to deal with abortion is to let the individual woman decide.

[merrylander]

Originally Posted by Boreas

You'll note that I said Christian and not Catholic. I was raised Catholic as well and Catholic doctrine regarding those who died in ignorance of the salvation to be found in Christ, and this in a state of original sin, spent eternity in Limbo. Other Christian denominations don't believe in Limbo and as a result believe that the unsaved are consigned to the flames.

As for the knowledge that an act is sinful being necessary, we have Ignorantia juris non excusat, or Ignorance of the law is no excuse. I may be making an error in conflating law with doctrine but most of our legal principles are derived from religion. And I once had a conversation with an acquaintance who made it most of the way through divinity school and it was his opinion that those born in ignorance of Christ were doomed to Hell.

Saint John in the first book of John, in Chapter 4 Verse 8 said "He that knows not love knows not God, for God is love' .

Now I find it strange that a loving God would consign someone to hell (which is really everyday life, not Dante's version) who never heard of Jesus and therefore never had the opportunity to accept Him or refuse Him.

What with me being Protestant and Florence being Catholic, and me have divorced my first wife (Anglican) we were not allowed to be married in the Church, not that it mattered since both our churches had left us - not the other way around.

Father Ray the Chaplain at HCGH visited Florence in the hospice and did give her the last rites - though she was more sinned against than sinner.

She asked that I not put her body in the ground but to have it cremated. I did and her ashes are in a beautiful urn in our Family Room. Oh yeah, the Vatican says I can't keep her ashes here in our home. Well the Vatican can go suck eggs.

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by merrylander

Saint John in the first book of John, in Chapter 4 Verse 8 said "He that knows not love knows not God, for God is love' .

Now I find it strange that a loving God would consign someone to hell (which is really everyday life, not Dante's version) who never heard of Jesus and therefore never had the opportunity to accept Him or refuse Him.

What with me being Protestant and Florence being Catholic, and me have divorced my first wife (Anglican) we were not allowed to be married in the Church, not that it mattered since both our churches had left us - not the other way around.

Father Ray the Chaplain at HCGH visited Florence in the hospice and did give her the last rites - though she was more sinned against than sinner.

She asked that I not put her body in the ground but to have it cremated. I did and her ashes are in a beautiful urn in our Family Room. Oh yeah, the Vatican says I can't keep her ashes here in our home. Well the Vatican can go suck eggs.

You're surprised to find logical inconsistencies in religious teachings?

[Dondilion]

Originally Posted by bobabode

Only to those that think their sky faery holds dominance over every citizen whether they believe in said faery or not.

Nothing about fairy.

It is about lingering conscience.

[merrylander]

Originally Posted by Boreas

You're surprised to find logical inconsistencies in religious teachings?

Depends whose teachings you are listening to John. The Sermon on the Mount or a bunch of hapless men who chose to interpret things to suit their own purposes.

The Vatican has a lousy track record when it comes to treatment of women and that is not how I was raised.