Donald Trump Lost Today. It's Over.

[donquixote99]

So all the non-human life forms are going to hell?

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

How can that first sin be a sin? How can you sin if you don't yet know the difference between good and evil?

It was an act of deliberate disobedience to God's direct admonition not to eat of the fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. Having eaten of it, Adam and Eve learned of good and evil for the first time so you have a point. On the other hand, Judeo-Christian religions have always been fuzzy about the nature of sin and whether knowing that an act was sinful was an essential ingredient of a sinful act.

[nailer]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

So all the non-human life forms are going to hell?

They just die.

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

So all the non-human life forms are going to hell?

There is no hell, so it's not a problem. But since only humans have a "soul", bunny rabbits are perfectly safe.

Until Pope Frank, Catholic dogma asserted that a person who was, for instance, born in a remote village in the Amazon and whom the missionaries never reached was doomed to eternal torment on account of never finding Jesus on his own.

[donquixote99]

Originally Posted by Boreas

It was an act of deliberate disobedience to God's direct admonition not to eat of the fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. Having eaten of it, Adam and Eve learned of good and evil for the first time so you have a point. On the other hand, Judeo-Christian religions have always been fuzzy about the nature of sin and whether knowing that an act was sinful was an essential ingredient of a sinful act.

Yes. Where does it say there's anything wrong with deliberate disobedience, until the moral sense is awakened? My cat seems totally unaware of the seriousness of deliberate disobedience.

[Pio1980]

Professor who's predicted 30 years of presidential elections correctly is doubling down on a Trump win - http://www.sltrib.com/home/4519852-1...ed-30-years-of

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

[nailer]

I read about that yesterday and he qualified the hell out of his prediction. He also gives the distinct impression that this election is unlike any of the others he predicted.

[d-ray657]

Trump's right. It is rigged.

[JCricket]

Originally Posted by Boreas

There is no hell, so it's not a problem. But since only humans have a "soul", bunny rabbits are perfectly safe.

Until Pope Frank, Catholic dogma asserted that a person who was, for instance, born in a remote village in the Amazon and whom the missionaries never reached was doomed to eternal torment on account of never finding Jesus on his own.

Originally Posted by donquixote99

Yes. Where does it say there's anything wrong with deliberate disobedience, until the moral sense is awakened? My cat seems totally unaware of the seriousness of deliberate disobedience.

Originally Posted by Boreas

It was an act of deliberate disobedience to God's direct admonition not to eat of the fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. Having eaten of it, Adam and Eve learned of good and evil for the first time so you have a point. On the other hand, Judeo-Christian religions have always been fuzzy about the nature of sin and whether knowing that an act was sinful was an essential ingredient of a sinful act.

Hey Boreas,
First I have to say I am very rusty. It has been a very long time since my involvement with the church. However, I was raised a Catholic. Not just the standard catholic, but groomed to be a priest. I was an alter boy for nearly 10 years. There were many(most weekends) I spent at the church cleaning the sacristy, polishing candle sticks, repairing the robes, etc. I served mass every single day. Funerals, weddings, baptisms, stations of the cross, First Friday devotions, knights of the altar, and so on. I was fully entrenched in the "catholic faith". By the age of 22 I had started to fall away from the faith. By 27 I quit. That was about 25 years ago. Since then i have completely stopped practicing.. My point is I have forgotten most of what I had learned.

Even so, the points above seem quite incorrect to me. People who never had the opportunity to learn of Christ were not dammed. I sure cannot remember what "happened" to their soul according to the church, but I am sure it wasn't hell. Also, for a sin to be committed, the individual had to know it was wrong and then commit the act. There was no ambiguity in this that I can remember. It was a prerequisite for all sins.

Don,
Your post made me think of something. Deliberate disobedience is not necessarily a sin. It depends on what "law" or "institution" you are defying. In fact, the obedience to an unjust or immoral law is in fact a sin. Your conscience is your guide.

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by JCricket

Hey Boreas,
First I have to say I am very rusty. It has been a very long time since my involvement with the church. However, I was raised a Catholic. Not just the standard catholic, but groomed to be a priest. I was an alter boy for nearly 10 years. There were many(most weekends) I spent at the church cleaning the sacristy, polishing candle sticks, repairing the robes, etc. I served mass every single day. Funerals, weddings, baptisms, stations of the cross, First Friday devotions, knights of the altar, and so on. I was fully entrenched in the "catholic faith". By the age of 22 I had started to fall away from the faith. By 27 I quit. That was about 25 years ago. Since then i have completely stopped practicing.. My point is I have forgotten most of what I had learned.

Even so, the points above seem quite incorrect to me. People who never had the opportunity to learn of Christ were not dammed. I sure cannot remember what "happened" to their soul according to the church, but I am sure it wasn't hell. Also, for a sin to be committed, the individual had to know it was wrong and then commit the act. There was no ambiguity in this that I can remember. It was a prerequisite for all sins.

Don,
Your post made me think of something. Deliberate disobedience is not necessarily a sin. It depends on what "law" or "institution" you are defying. In fact, the obedience to an unjust or immoral law is in fact a sin. Your conscience is your guide.

You'll note that I said Christian and not Catholic. I was raised Catholic as well and Catholic doctrine regarding those who died in ignorance of the salvation to be found in Christ, and this in a state of original sin, spent eternity in Limbo. Other Christian denominations don't believe in Limbo and as a result believe that the unsaved are consigned to the flames.

As for the knowledge that an act is sinful being necessary, we have Ignorantia juris non excusat, or Ignorance of the law is no excuse. I may be making an error in conflating law with doctrine but most of our legal principles are derived from religion. And I once had a conversation with an acquaintance who made it most of the way through divinity school and it was his opinion that those born in ignorance of Christ were doomed to Hell.