Facebook IPO - Lessons learned?

[bobabode]

Originally Posted by bhunter

Beautifully stated Whell.

More fairytale than textbook economics with the heavy
Originally Posted by whell
"There's a difference between greed and operating in one's own self interest. Self interest does not include deceitful behavior, and includes by definition taking care of the folks that will be your customers. Greed is self - destructive.

The economic system is not based on greed, and this is a major flaw in the thought process of some on the left, including the current occupant of the White House. Individuals operate in a self destructive manner when they attempt to rig the system in their favor, manipulate others, and take on more risk than most others would find acceptable with their self destructive behavior.

Anyone can lose site of operating in their own self interest and succumb to greed. This is not behavior that is exclusive to the left or right. It may very well be operative in the unfolding story of the Facebook IPO, and as such should be instructive about the failures of individuals, not the indictment of an economic system. "

Sounds like a cry for regulation from an already distressed economic system Whell & BH BTW get a room you two.

Portraying it as left-right thing is kinda funny. I don't see anyone giving a pass to Zuckerman. Sheesh, I want his ass deported and no tourist visas to come home for a visit. Hell, this guy isn't even an American citizen anymore. Do the super rich really run like rats off what they consider a sinkin' ship? Wouldn't be the first time..

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by whell

I'm curious what my friends on the left side of this forum think about the events surrounding the Facebook IPO. Here's a firm that where the number 1 and number 2 ranking officers - Zuckerberg and Sandberg, who now have net worth in excess of $15B and $5B respectively - are certainly Dems and lean left.

Yet the IPO has made them billionaires, and had been fraught with allegations of, at best, overvaluation of stock, to at worst insider trading and mis-communicated changes to the valuation of the stock within days of the IPO. CBS News called the IPO 'drenched in arrogance' as the stock was overvalued and over-hyped from the start, and the insiders fed and fueled the hype.

Now, I suspect that if this were a company owned and abetted by the political right, some folks on this forum would be chomping at the bit to post how the Wall Streeters are getting their "comeuppance" and how greedy the right leaning owners must have been. Does that same characterization apply to this IPO, and this company, and these newly minted lefty billionaires?

I also suspect our mainstream media - those who cover the finance / investing world - are a bit complicit here as well. I think many were caught up in Zuckerberg's celebrity rather than doing any objective analysis of Facebook's finances.

Yeah, just can't trust a lyin' ass businessman can you?

It is a truly sad fact.

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by Charles

IMHO, whoever invented the koozie has done far more to benefit mankind than these two jerkoffs who came up with Facebook.

Chas

Yeah, but they prolly made more money than the Koozie guy........

And certainly made more money than .......YOU.

[merrylander]

Originally Posted by whell

There's a difference between greed and operating in one's own self interest. Self interest does not include deceitful behavior, and includes by definition taking care of the folks that will be your customers. Greed is self - destructive.

The economic system is not based on greed, and this is a major flaw in the thought process of some on the left, including the current occupant of the White House. Individuals operate in a self destructive manner when they attempt to rig the system in their favor, manipulate others, and take on more risk than most others would find acceptable with their self destructive behavior.

Anyone can lose site of operating in their own self interest and succumb to greed. This is not behavior that is exclusive to the left or right. It may very well be operative in the unfolding story of the Facebook IPO, and as such should be instructive about the failures of individuals, not the indictment of an economic system.

Wrong! During Wall Street's glory days the big finance firms were private partnerships and each partner's own money was on the line. They managed the risk.

Once these firms went public they were risking other people's money. Given the big bonuses being handed out, risk management went out the window in the face of - GREED.

[whell]

Originally Posted by merrylander

Wrong! During Wall Street's glory days the big finance firms were private partnerships and each partner's own money was on the line. They managed the risk.

Once these firms went public they were risking other people's money. Given the big bonuses being handed out, risk management went out the window in the face of - GREED.

Not wrong. Publicly traded companies have a fiduciary responsibility to the company share holders not to expose the company to excessive risk. As you're seeing with the Facebook IPO, individuals also have legal recourse / remedies if a trade was handled improperly.

[wgrr]

Originally Posted by whell

Not my label. Zuckerberg and Sandberg are fairly open in their support for the Donkeys.

Don't know about Sandberg but I believe he is very active in the Democratic party.

Zukerburg is a no declaration voter on his last voter registration. That does not really matter much since he has only voted a couple of times since 2002. He Does not contribute money to political campaigns, except for $2400 donation to Carly Fiorina's campaign. Fiorina is a Republican.

He does like Obama, but many people do. He has pledged to donate 50% of his wealth to charity over the years just like Warren Buffet , George Lucas, and Bill gates have done. He donated 100 million directly to the Newark school system. He does donate money.

A lot of people assume he is a Democrat because he is a New York Jew and we all know they vote Democratic. The problem with that theory is Zuckerburg is an atheist. It is right there on his Facebook page.

My conclusion is Zuckerburg has no party affiliation and is not very interested in politics or religion. He is a programmer. Most true hackers don't care about any thing but their next line of code.

I am sure there are tons of right wing websites claiming that Zuckerburg is a hardcore Democrat who has donated millions of dollars to Democrats.

[wgrr]

Originally Posted by bobabode

More fairytale than textbook economics with the heavy
Originally Posted by whell
"There's a difference between greed and operating in one's own self interest. Self interest does not include deceitful behavior, and includes by definition taking care of the folks that will be your customers. Greed is self - destructive.

The economic system is not based on greed, and this is a major flaw in the thought process of some on the left, including the current occupant of the White House. Individuals operate in a self destructive manner when they attempt to rig the system in their favor, manipulate others, and take on more risk than most others would find acceptable with their self destructive behavior.

Anyone can lose site of operating in their own self interest and succumb to greed. This is not behavior that is exclusive to the left or right. It may very well be operative in the unfolding story of the Facebook IPO, and as such should be instructive about the failures of individuals, not the indictment of an economic system. "

Sounds like a cry for regulation from an already distressed economic system Whell & BH BTW get a room you two.

Portraying it as left-right thing is kinda funny. I don't see anyone giving a pass to Zuckerman. Sheesh, I want his ass deported and no tourist visas to come home for a visit. Hell, this guy isn't even an American citizen anymore. Do the super rich really run like rats off what they consider a sinkin' ship? Wouldn't be the first time..

Eduardo Saverin is the Facebook co-founder that renounced his citizenship. Zuckerman is still an American citizen living in California.

[bobabode]

Originally Posted by wgrr

Eduardo Saverin is the Facebook co-founder that renounced his citizenship. Zuckerman is still an American citizen living in California.

I stand corrected, I did mean Severing.

[merrylander]

Originally Posted by whell

Not wrong. Publicly traded companies have a fiduciary responsibility to the company share holders not to expose the company to excessive risk. As you're seeing with the Facebook IPO, individuals also have legal recourse / remedies if a trade was handled improperly.

So pray tell what law or regulation enforces that "fiduciary responsibility"? Since Gramm and company removed all regulation greed became the dominant factor. When faced with six figure bonuses all they needed to say was "I was sure that (insert your favourite financial instrument) was going to pay off" and there is not a damn thing the Justice Department or state Attornies General could do.

As to the facebook fiasco let's wait and see, somehow I don't excpect anyone to do serious time.

[whell]

Originally Posted by merrylander

So pray tell what law or regulation enforces that "fiduciary responsibility"?

29 USC § 1109 - Liability for breach of fiduciary duty