PPACA and the Catholic temper tantrum.

[Charles]

Originally Posted by Bigerik

And, come to think of it, all of those things are legal in other countries, but not the land of liberty.

I just spent 8 hours getting my corporates in order so that I can pay my accountant do the paperwork since I've learned my lesson on sending ANYTHING to the IRS that he hasn't signed off on...and you're telling me I ain't free???

What are you trying to do, burst my bubble???

Chas

[barbara]

Originally Posted by Charles

Only in the sense that funding is being used as the means to enforce one's will over others.

We've discussed constitutional rights, what they actually mean, piss on 'em anyway, stupid people ain't got no rights, if I had to pay for your shit, they you're gonna pay for my shit, its' none of my business, it's everybody's business, the slippery slope, and pretty much everything else in between.

The only thing which hasn't been discussed is how much this actually cost. No one cares about the money.

Chas

Chas, when you have a construction crew come and remodel your home both parties agree to meet certain obligations. You agree to pay for the service and the construction crew agrees to remodel your home in a way that meets local building codes and regulations.
It works the same when the gov contracts with an organization to provide a service. Both parties are obligated to meet the terms of the contract.
This is not about religion other than the fact that the organization receiving federal funding happens to be a religious organization.
It could be a lesbian organization, or a senior citizen organization that the gov pays to provide a service and the obligation to meet the terms of the agreement would be the same.

[painter]

Originally Posted by barbara

Chas, when you have a construction crew come and remodel your home both parties agree to meet certain obligations. You agree to pay for the service and the construction crew agrees to remodel your home in a way that meets local building codes and regulations.
It works the same when the gov contracts with an organization to provide a service. Both parties are obligated to meet the terms of the contract.
This is not about religion other than the fact that the organization receiving federal funding happens to be a religious organization.
It could be a lesbian organization, or a senior citizen organization that the gov pays to provide a service and the obligation to meet the terms of the agreement would be the same.

Government analogy 101?

[Charles]

Originally Posted by barbara

Chas, when you have a construction crew come and remodel your home both parties agree to meet certain obligations. You agree to pay for the service and the construction crew agrees to remodel your home in a way that meets local building codes and regulations.
It works the same when the gov contracts with an organization to provide a service. Both parties are obligated to meet the terms of the contract.
This is not about religion other than the fact that the organization receiving federal funding happens to be a religious organization.
It could be a lesbian organization, or a senior citizen organization that the gov pays to provide a service and the obligation to meet the terms of the agreement would be the same.

I understand how a contract works.

But whenever I contract to do work, if the owners have something they want done that I don't do, I tell them upfront, and have them get a separate bid for that item.

And even on the work that I agree to do, I make allowances for adjustments, in case I happen to do more, or less, or they change the parameters.

Fortunately, most of the people I deal with are pretty agreeable, and don't pull that "my way or the highway" bullshit the government is famous for.

Chas

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by barbara

Big Bill.... Exactly and specifically... Which right is being taken away?

That's what I want to know.

I would also like to know exactly how many innocent American citizens the president has labelled "terrorist" and summarily ordered killed since the passing of that particular piece of legislation.

My guess is none.

Dave

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by Charles

I just spent 8 hours getting my corporates in order so that I can pay my accountant do the paperwork since I've learned my lesson on sending ANYTHING to the IRS that he hasn't signed off on...and you're telling me I ain't free???

What are you trying to do, burst my bubble???

Chas

You are horribly oppressed. The Jewish and Nubian slaves who built the pyramids didn't have it so bad. My God, how do you endure it?

Someone get this man a wet sponge and a bucket of gruel.

Dave

[barbara]

Originally Posted by Charles

I understand how a contract works.

But whenever I contract to do work, if the owners have something they want done that I don't do, I tell them upfront, and have them get a separate bid for that item.

And even on the work that I agree to do, I make allowances for adjustments, in case I happen to do more, or less, or they change the parameters.

Fortunately, most of the people I deal with are pretty agreeable, and don't pull that "my way or the highway" bullshit the government is famous for.

Chas

Exactly! You negotiate the terms of the contract and both parties know up front what the expectations are. It works the same way with government. Those religious organizations getting paid federal dollars to provide a service know exactly what they are getting themselves into when they sign those contracts.

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by Big_Bill

Merry,

There are times when I couldn't agree with you more, and the pointless deaths of our men are one of them.

But the Constitution is the Constitution, and as D-Ray pointed out so well, are viewed with human eyes, even with polarized glasses.

But ounce You surrender one "Right" to the government, for what ever reason, you open Pandora's box, allowing the continued erosion of Your rights.

I personally couldn't care less about church laws or practices, but this is just the beginning of the erosion that will surely continue. Hell, BO can now have anyone killed if he perceives them a terrorist, but a terrorist to who ? Barry Soetoro ?

As Ben Franklin said so well: Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.

Bill

"It is obviously impractical in the federal government of these states, to secure all rights of independent sovereignty to each, and yet provide for the interest and safety of all: Individuals entering into society, must give up a share of liberty to preserve the rest. The magnitude of the sacrifice must depend as well on situation and circumstances, as on the object to be obtained. It is at all times difficult to draw with precision the line between those rights which must be surrendered, and those which may be reserved; and on the present occasion this difficulty was encreased by a difference among the several states as to their situation, extent, habits, and particular interests. "

George Washington

In otherwords, sometimes we must sacrifice rights to serve the "......interest and safety of all."

So, George and I say to you;

Bite me.

Dave

[Charles]

Originally Posted by barbara

Exactly! You negotiate the terms of the contract and both parties know up front what the expectations are. It works the same way with government. Those religious organizations getting paid federal dollars to provide a service know exactly what they are getting themselves into when they sign those contracts.

Just out of curiosity, how much flexibility does the government offer in healthcare contracts?

To tell the truth, this thread has dealt more with theory than to what is actually going on.

Chas

[Oerets]

Originally Posted by djv8ga

You would be forcing people to provide and perform services that they and their religion consider to be immoral.
It's not just the grantee, but also the grantor.

You really seem to be having a hard time with this simple issue.

Provide coverage yes as any company with 50 employees and if a institution accepts any federal funding then they need to perform services. They are running as a business not a church. Not pick and choose what they will and won't do. I'm not having a hard time with it at all.
We in Louisville just went through a very similar issue with a hospital merger. So the all these issues were addressed and finial blocked by the Governor.


Nobody is forcing a women to take BC measures, just making it available for free. I hate paying taxes to support corporate welfare so if the church can go and run a hospital without my funding and also stop taking in Medicare patients then we can talk about morality.




The one positive thing I see coming from this, is a renewing of the single payer for health care option. I can tell you been hearing from more then a few who would never of said single payer are now mentioning it as a good option.




Barney