The logic doesnt add up....

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

And those socialist paradises in Europe have their national security paid for by the evil USA - we do their bombing for them.

I doubt very seriously whether any of these "socialist paradises" (Gimme a break, Pete! ) think of our military adventures as being in their interest. Furthermore, these countries all have standing armies and, except for France, are member states of NATO. As a result, they contribute significantly to their own defense and that of their neighbors and allies - and to our own.

Our military presence in Europe has at least as much to do with maintaining our occupation of Western Europe, dating from the end of WWII, as it does with providing regional security, especially since the collapse of the Soviet Union and the dissolution of the Warsaw Pact. We're there, pretty much, in order to be there.

http://www.tinyvital.com/blog/2003/7...n-crime-rates/

Couldn't find anything newer, but know most crime is less in the US. NYC is one of the safest large cities in the world.

Pete

US crime rates for the period described appear to be lower than in three European countries. What about all the rest of them, around a dozen countries? I suspect they were excluded because they didn't support the author's conclusions.

Also, Pete, why was there no focus on ethnicity and race for those European countries? The author seemed quite delighted to point out the higher crime rate among African Americans but didn't want to look at the comparable stats for the three European countries, all of which have very large non-white populations.

John

[piece-itpete]

Look at the percentage of GNP those countries spend on military. We keep the world stable - they don't and they DEFINATELY benefit from it. If we don't need to be there, perhaps a call to Obama is in order

I suspect the author was showing that, if you subtract the generally small high crime areas our crime rate would be close to nothing.

Recently I saw another study showing the same conclusion, that outside of murder the US is generally much safer than Europe.

Pete

[Grumpy]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

Recently I saw another study showing the same conclusion, that outside of murder the US is generally much safer than Europe.

Pete

Man we really need a smiley scratching its head

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

Look at the percentage of GNP those countries spend on military. We keep the world stable - they don't and they DEFINATELY benefit from it. If we don't need to be there, perhaps a call to Obama is in order

My God, Pete! How on earth can you say we keep the world stable? If you look at virtually all the instability in the world you'll see our fingerprints all over it, from Iraq and Afghanistan to Myanmar and Indonesia. We even had our corporations doing business with Iran while Bush was talking about nuking them. How are other nations supposed to react to such mixed signals?

We get rid of the tyrants we can't work with and prop up the ones we find useful. If our "friends" have indigenous opposition we deal with it for them. If our "enemies" have opposition we support that. If all else fails we invade or bomb or both.

Before I give my friend Barry a call I want to make sure I'm not wrong. Could you tell me why we do need to have military bases in Europe?

I suspect the author was showing that, if you subtract the generally small high crime areas our crime rate would be close to nothing.

I'm sure you're right, just like Bill Bennett saying, "I do know that it's true that if you wanted to reduce crime, you could -- if that were your sole purpose, you could abort every black baby in this country and your crime rate would go down."

(By the way, I think those crime stats for different races were misleading. It looks to me like you were seeing White crime per 100K population of Whites, Black per 100K population of Blacks, etc. If you looked at crime by race as measured against population as a whole the numbers would be VERY different for non-Whites. I can't check this, though, because the link to the raw data used in the blog post is dead.

John

[piece-itpete]

Originally Posted by Grumpy

Man we really need a smiley scratching its head

If it's murder it's OK!

Even if our murder rate is higher than Europes it's still very low

John, we're living in Pax Americana. We sit on the pinnacle of purely human history. We make Rome look like a bunch of amateurs.

I'd sure like to know why we directly subsidize Europe to the tune of many bils a year too!

Pete

PS I'm certainly not going the black white thing.

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by Grumpy

Man we really need a smiley scratching its head

Maybe you could ask a Mod?

John

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

Recently I saw another study showing the same conclusion, that outside of murder the US is generally much safer than Europe.

Pete

That statement is patently ridiculous on its face. Kind like this famous quote:

...and other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how did you enjoy your evening?

The beauty of America is you are so free you can leave if you dont like it and I invite many to take full advantage of this freedom we hold dear. I fully respect and encourage your choice to leave if you think others do it better than the United States.

This is even more ridiculous. The whole "America, Love it or Leave It" schtick. That implies that if we recognize certain aspects of our society that can and should be improved upon, we should ignore them or emigrate. Secondly, all other democracies that I'm aware of allow their citizens to emigrate if they desire (presuming off course that they get the appropriate entry papers from their new homeland).

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

Even if our murder rate is higher than Europes it's still very low

Of course, this is complete nonsense. Ours is the highest in "The Civilized World". Does your smiley mean you know that?

John, we're living in Pox Americana.

Fixed it for you.

We sit on the pinnacle of purely human history. We make Rome look like a bunch of amateurs.

And the rest of the world trembles.

I'd sure like to know why we directly subsidize Europe to the tune of many bils a year too!

Statistics? What we shell out to operate our European military bases doesn't count, by the way.

PS I'm certainly not going the black white thing.

No, I wasn't saying you were but I suspect the blogger was.

John

[Fast_Eddie]

Originally Posted by finnbow

That implies that if we recognize certain aspects of our society than can and should be improved upon, we should ignore them or emigrate.

Maybe the tea party folks should move somewhere that has lower taxes.

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by Fast_Eddie

Maybe the tea party folks should move somewhere that has lower taxes.

But see, these folks are patriots. They want to return America to the country the Foundering Fathers created. We, on the other hand, want to turn the "World's Greatest Democracy" into a gulag.

I know this is true because Glenn Beck told me so.

John