Check Out the Scumbag Dem's In WI - Page 8

finnbow · #71 02-18-2011, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d-ray657

That is essentially saying you can form a committee once a year to come beg with the state for an increase in your wages. It is one step away from outlawing public employee unions. The proposed benefit concessions are not draconian - the changes in the bargaining law are.

Regards,

D-Ray

Yep, the more I read about it, the more I'm convinced that this is what is at issue. This provision has made the Governor's plan an existential threat to the public employee unions in Wisconsin. Though I'm not a particular fan of public employees unions, it is certainly easy to understand why they're on the barricades with respect to this provision.

Furthermore, with the tax cuts the Gov. just instituted causing the fiscal imbalance, it's easy to understand why people perceive this as a preconceived plan to kill the union.

That said, a better business climate and a uncoupling of the unholy alliance between the public employee unions and the state Democratic party may very well help the state in the long run. In the short run, however, it's going to be ugly.

whell · #72 02-18-2011, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d-ray657

That is essentially saying you can form a committee once a year to come beg with the state for an increase in your wages. It is one step away from outlawing public employee unions. The proposed benefit concessions are not draconian - the changes in the bargaining law are.

Regards,

D-Ray

Depends on your perspective. The proposal would appear to lock in a 2 - 3% increase per year, higher if the CPI spikes. Anything above that would require approval from the taxpayers. Seems fair to me, since the public then gets to decide if they're getting value for their dollar.

d-ray657 · #73 02-18-2011, 04:37 PM

Nope. The CPI is a cap, not a floor. It is particularly tenuous, because the rest of the provisions are designed to distract the unions with trying to survive rather than advancing the interests of their members.

Regards,

D-ray

Danimal · #74 02-18-2011, 09:43 PM

Let's not forget who won the election. This is about fixing a state budget that has been broke for quite a while. I feel for anyone who gets their pay cut. Let us just remember that the public unions were at the table for 15 months prior to this and would not give any concessions. (That was when there was a Dem in control) Gov Walker is doing what he thinks needs to be done. Right or wrong, it is how he is seeing it. If you think this is bad.... wait til you see his next cuts! Most people have not even read the bill that is up for a vote. It is 5.8% of gross towards their pension and 12%... and this is important... of their insurance premium. NOT THEIR GROSS PAY. The insurance contribution comes out BEFORE taxes, so the taxable income is reduced. This is not a lot to ask. Not to mention they receive their pension contributions back when they retire.

For the last two years, Federally, the GOP has been told to suck it up, that they lost the election. We can pass whatever we want. Well guess what... the people of Wisconsin voted and this is what the majority of voters want. A Gov that will balance the budget and get us out of the crisis we are in.

d-ray657 · #75 02-18-2011, 10:51 PM

The numbers are not the big issue. The issue is stripping the union of their basic bargaining and organizing rights.

Missouri's bargaining law is not a union friendly public bargaining statute. Nevertheless, the governor does not find it necessary to wipe the unions out to obtain necessary personnel provisions. If the parties can't reach an agreement, then the governing body will implement the terms it has agreed to, and apply the other terms it deems necessary. In that process, the union is still recognized and given a voice in the process, and is not limited to bargaining over only one of the terms and conditions of employment. They are not burdened with the demand to go though the recognition process on a yearly basis, while being financially starved by the elimination of dues checkoff.

If the fiscal needs of the state demanded some employee contribution to health and pension plans, the Wis. governor could seek statutory implementation of those terms (even though he created the fiscal crisis by giving tax cuts to businesses). It is not necessary to nuke the unions to gain the allegedly necessary fiscal adjustments. That venture is nothing but ideological vindictiveness.

Regards,

D-Ray

BlueStreak · #76 02-18-2011, 11:59 PM

Interesting article on the issue at hand.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezr..._for_wisc.html

Dave

Danimal · #77 02-19-2011, 04:29 AM

There is NO God given "right" to collectively bargain. Why do people keep calling it a "right." People are acting like Walker is stripping them of their "right" to free speech.

merrylander · #78 02-19-2011, 07:34 AM

I heard on the news last night that Wisconsin's budget was in pretty good shape before Walker gave all his business buddies a big tax cut, can someone verify this?

merrylander · #79 02-19-2011, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danimal

There is NO God given "right" to collectively bargain. Why do people keep calling it a "right." People are acting like Walker is stripping them of their "right" to free speech.

There is also no God given right to operate a corporation like an asshole, but many do.

Combwork · #80 02-19-2011, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

The government unions here retire VERY early, and get hired back into the same job the next day. It's called double dipping.

Meanwhile, the roads are falling apart.

Pete

Same thing happens in the UK. To avoid public anger over high bonus payments, senior managers can by laid off them hired back with a different title at a higher pay rate, usually the equivalent of their old basic rate with the bonus added in monthly installments. Clever. A wage rise that isn't seen to be a wage rise.