For the First Time in my Life, I'm Afraid for Our Country

[GChief]

Originally Posted by Noogies

What do the vast majority of Armed Forces guys you interact with say?

When it comes up the vast majority think the NG in the streets goes against all their training. Also not being required to follow "unlawful" orders comes up often.

[Noogies]

Originally Posted by GChief

When it comes up the vast majority think the NG in the streets goes against all their training. Also not being required to follow "unlawful" orders comes up often.

So you feel like most of the people you're talking to would be willing to push back to the extent that they would disobey an order if they honestly believed it was unlawful?

If that is the case, it makes me feel better. Well, at least a little bit.

[GChief]

Originally Posted by Noogies

So you feel like most of the people you're talking to would be willing to push back to the extent that they would disobey an order if they honestly believed it was unlawful?

If that is the case, it makes me feel better. Well, at least a little bit.

Our oath, mine is still valid even in retirement, is to protect the constitution and this is always brought up during these discussions.

Look it up, following lawful direction is even in it.

[Oerets]

Originally Posted by GChief

Our oath, mine is still valid even in retirement, is to protect the constitution and this is always brought up during these discussions.

Look it up, following lawful direction is even in it.

I more then half expecting a loyalty oath to you know who soon....

[GChief]

Originally Posted by Oerets

I more then half expecting a loyalty oath to you know who soon....

That might not go as expected

And the Prez is already mentioned in the existing one, but that is also where lawful direction is mentioned.

[RickeyM]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

Trump doesn't need the military. He's got ICE. He just needs the military to not interfere. That's pretty much what they think they are supposed to do. So no problem with the military.

It must also be noted that the military is willing to blow up foreigners when ordered, no questions asked. Three boatloads so far, AFAIK.

But will they fire on American citizens? I think some of them would. There are MAGA among the ranks. I have no doubt the tRUMP regime would order them to do so if it came down to it.

[donquixote99]

The Chinese brought in troops from far-off region to do the job at Tiananmen Square. But the job was done. The key is 'othering.' If the troops see the target population as 'others,' then it's game on.

[RickeyM]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

The Chinese brought in troops from far-off region to do the job at Tiananmen Square. But the job was done. The key is 'othering.' If the troops see the target population as 'others,' then it's game on.

ICE anyone?

[icenine]

Most military members hate dog and pony shows...in other words some Admiral is coming to visit for 20 minutes so the complete two weeks prior to said visit hours and hours are wasted cleaning spaces and polishing brass he or she will never even walk by and see.
Being sent to supposedly fight crime (they are not trained law enforcement officers) and ending up posing for selfies and picking up trash in public parks is a dog and pony show on steroids.

[donquixote99]

Originally Posted by RickeyM

ICE anyone?

Let's not confuse ICE with the military. ICE is set up and equipped to terrorize civilians. About all you need for that is guns and attitude, though they outfit them with a bunch of gear to make them look more scary and invulnerable.

The actual military is trained and equipped to take on other military. They have heavy weapons and are trained in tactics to survive facing well-armed enemies and take them out. A bunch of ICE guys would not last 5 minutes against an actual military formation.

ICE is what's called a 'paramilitary.' They can do what they want against unarmed civilians, or light resistance. They can maybe handle even an armed mob, or a group of armed gangsters, though so far they have avoided any such situations. They would not be able to enter an area defended by organized and trained militia without calling in troops with heavy weapons: armored vehicles, air support, etc. And about any number of them would be brushed aside by an actual military formation.

So what if ICE escalates the situation? Starts hauling people away in large numbers, or penning them in ghettos, and shooting people? And armed resistance is provoked? At that point, what the Army does will sort-of decide things.

On edit: there's a joker in the deck:the big-budget expanded ICE will likely include some heavy-weapons units. So they can handle heavier resistance themselves without calling in the Army.