Putin Invades the Ukraine

[Human]

Originally Posted by Dondilion

Chicks,Pootin is not my hero.

The biggest fools are those obsessed with Pootin, especially those leaders in Europe who have led their countries into deindustrialization. Check the massive down turn in the European engine Germany. Germany is sending its industries/factories to China and USA. UK? France?
They have all been played.

The dumbest set of leaders there ever was. They heralded the Green New Deal and before the Deal could get a leg up they (German leaders especially) shut down their nuclear stations. Then they started to "terrorize" their farmers by trying to put the weight of transition on them.
Now they are putting tariffs on the cheapest quality New Green Deal equipment coming from China.

BTW Ursula said she is expecting CHEAP LNG from USA.

The West spent so much time agonizing over Pootin that it went to sleep on China and missed China's rise. WTF the dumb Germans sold KUKA to the Chinese. The US did not notice China in their backyard (Latin America) now it is reaching for Marco Rubio and threatening Brazil and Peru. Africa! That is another story.
Pootin is a huge distraction. Now all Europe and US have left is TARIFF. The Chinese have beaten both in trade to the extent that the US is threatening it allies especially Netherlands, S. Korea and Japan, regarding what they can and cannot sell to China.

You seems to have a lot of complaints, but no solutions.

I assure you that the industry I am in has noticed China in Latin America for over a decade now. But what are you going to do when they are offering products that are cheaper and supported by more staff? You can't tell Brazil what to buy or not buy.

Putin IS a threat (of a different kind). Talking about China is just muddying the waters.

[donquixote99]

Talking about China here is the "whatabout China" defense of Russia. Comes from the person who is not a Putin fan, but will definitely do, until a Putin fan comes along.

[Chicks]

Originally Posted by Dondilion

Pootin is not my hero.

You sure had us fooled, then. You defend him at every turn.

[Dondilion]

The "what about China" defense of Russia is an argument put forward by Lloyd Austin early in the Biden admin. His faction lost to the neocons led by Mrs Kagan.
Later Mrs Kagan was kicked out/retired when it became clear that the Ukraine project was unraveling and a strategic bed rock of US foreign policy - the separation of Russia and China - was also unraveling.

[Dondilion]

Originally Posted by Chicks

You sure had us fooled, then. You defend him at every turn.

People here often conflate balance with defense. There are certain topics (vaccine one of them) which are very difficult to have sane civilized conversation without such descending into inane name calling.
My input on Putin has been consistent: He has saved Russia from Balkanization which is a constant threat especially from the "Great Game" people such as Boris Johnson. I did not support his invasion of Ukraine and indicated that on this site.
A lot of issues are surrounded by echo chamber and talking points; adopting adult attitude is a challenge.

[Pio1980]

Originally Posted by Dondilion

People here often conflate balance with defense. There are certain topics (vaccine one of them) which are very difficult to have sane civilized conversation without such descending into inane name calling.
My input on Putin has been consistent: He has saved Russia from Balkanization which is a constant threat especially from the "Great Game" people such as Boris Johnson. I did not support his invasion of Ukraine and indicated that on this site.
A lot of issues are surrounded by echo chamber and talking points; adopting adult attitude is a challenge.

Russians tend to tolerate if not prefer autocratic authority, even as an out and proud obvious corrupt kleptocracy, and they know it and I would surmise prefer it to the chaotic situation with the oligarchs looting the countries assets and poor governance of that period immediately after the end of the Communist era. I do not fault them for that, but Putin's hostile aggressive land grabs of an adjoining country in violation of a treaty assuring quite the opposite after them surrendering their defensive nuclear arsenal is just indefensible. The historical prescedent set in the latter 1930s is an example of what appeasement produces, it effectively hands our Western European NATO Allies over to his militaristic whims.

[Oasis]

Originally Posted by Dondilion

People here often conflate balance with defense. There are certain topics (vaccine one of them) which are very difficult to have sane civilized conversation without such descending into inane name calling.
My input on Putin has been consistent: He has saved Russia from Balkanization which is a constant threat especially from the "Great Game" people such as Boris Johnson. I did not support his invasion of Ukraine and indicated that on this site.
A lot of issues are surrounded by echo chamber and talking points; adopting adult attitude is a challenge.

Is the vaccine topic a valid comparison, it is facts and science vs conspiracy theories and lies.

Hmm...

[Dondilion]

Originally Posted by Human

Putin IS a threat (of a different kind). Talking about China is just muddying the waters.

Some (Kissinger one of them) think that China is central to the issue: that pushing NATO into Ukraine will with its natural reactions risks pushing Russia into the arms of China...a huge strategic No, No.

[donquixote99]

Originally Posted by Dondilion

Some (Kissinger one of them) think that China is central to the issue: that pushing NATO into Ukraine will with its natural reactions risks pushing Russia into the arms of China...a huge strategic No, No.

How about allowing the breaking open of the 'international system' that illegitimatizes armed force as a tool of expansion? Perhaps that would be a strategic no-no of even more huge dimensions?

[Dondilion]

Originally Posted by Oasis

Is the vaccine topic a valid comparison, it is facts and science vs conspiracy theories and lies.

Hmm...

Hmm... Let's suppose I say that the jury on the Covid vaccine is still out.