Zelensky meets with Biden...

[Ike Bana]

Originally Posted by finnbow

I think he is more interested in advancing Putin's agenda that the GOP's, though nowadays they largely coincide.

James Kirchick in an article on Brookings.org has referred to the GOP as the "Putin Party."

How the GOP became the party of Putin

[whell]

The bottom line is this: no one wants Ukraine to lose the war with Russia. Do the Ukrainians have a realistic chance of "winning" the war with Russia? Most would say no, but that's another discussion.

I think the right side of the GOP would fall into line on Ukraine war funding if there were legitimate commitments to defend our own borders. The migrant crisis continues to intensify along the southern US border, and no one seems willing to constructively address it.

According to NBC News:

The number of all people, including U.S. citizens, on the terrorist watchlist who had been stopped at the southern border as of July this fiscal year was 216, compared to 165 in all of fiscal year 2022. The number of border crossers on the watchlist was higher in fiscal year 2019, at 280.

And those are the ones we know about. There are likely many more that we don't know about that have entered the US.

I think if there's some "give" on US border security, there will be a lot less resistance to Ukraine war funding.

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by whell

The bottom line is this: no one wants Ukraine to lose the war with Russia. Do the Ukrainians have a realistic chance of "winning" the war with Russia? Most would say no, but that's another discussion.

I think the right side of the GOP would fall into line on Ukraine war funding if there were legitimate commitments to defend our own borders. The migrant crisis continues to intensify along the southern US border, and no one seems willing to constructively address it.

According to NBC News:

The number of all people, including U.S. citizens, on the terrorist watchlist who had been stopped at the southern border as of July this fiscal year was 216, compared to 165 in all of fiscal year 2022. The number of border crossers on the watchlist was higher in fiscal year 2019, at 280.

And those are the ones we know about. There are likely many more that we don't know about that have entered the US.

I think if there's some "give" on US border security, there will be a lot less resistance to Ukraine war funding.

Bullshit. MAGA's affinity towards Russia and Putin and their enmity toward Ukraine and Zelensky have exactly zero to do with our southern border. MAGA simply loves authoritarianism and hates democracy. They also know that the feeling is mutual (Putin loves Trump and Zelensky (rightly) does not trust Trump who (through his minions in the House) is still trying to float the discredited Burisma story that Rudy concocted (and which led to Trump's first impeachment).

Moreover, Republicans have no real desire to control the border and fix immigration. It's all part of their performative schtick and an outlet for their hatred of "the other." They can't afford to solve the problem as it would result in the loss of an important wedge issue. Had they really wanted to do something, they could have done so years ago during the Dubya administration when "comprehensive immigration reform" was on the table, but the nativist knuckledraggers in the party (with a big assist from Rush Limbaugh) put the kibosh to it.

[whell]

Originally Posted by finnbow

Bullshit. MAGA's affinity towards Russia and Putin and their enmity toward Ukraine and Zelensky have exactly zero to do with our southern border. MAGA simply loves authoritarianism and hates democracy. They also know that the feeling is mutual (Putin loves Trump and Zelensky (rightly) does not trust Trump who (through his minions in the House) is still trying to float the discredited Burisma story that Rudy concocted (and which led to Trump's first impeachment).

Moreover, Republicans have no real desire to control the border and fix immigration. It's all part of their performative schtick and an outlet for their hatred of "the other." They can't afford to solve the problem as it would result in the loss of an important wedge issue. Had they really wanted to do something, they could have done so years ago during the Dubya administration when "comprehensive immigration reform" was on the table, but the nativist knuckledraggers in the party (with a big assist from Rush Limbaugh) put the kibosh to it.

This post is simply a hate-filled crap bomb that doesn't reflect reality. But hey, you do you Finn.

In the meantime, here's reality:

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/4...t-over-border/

“[In] 2021, a load of 50 million fentanyl pills, laced pills, have come across the southern border. The cartels are making $13 billion a year doing human smuggling. This is outrageous what is going on right now. And it is affecting every single state,” Graves said.

I guess Finn is all for human trafficking and more fentanyl as long as he can have some stupid talking point about "the other".

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by whell

This post is simply a hate-filled crap bomb that doesn't reflect reality. But hey, you do you Finn.

In the meantime, here's reality:

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/4...t-over-border/

“[In] 2021, a load of 50 million fentanyl pills, laced pills, have come across the southern border. The cartels are making $13 billion a year doing human smuggling. This is outrageous what is going on right now. And it is affecting every single state,” Graves said.

I guess Finn is all for human trafficking and more fentanyl as long as he can have some stupid talking point about "the other".

I didn't say the border is not a problem. I said it has nothing whatsoever to do with the lack of MAGA support for Ukraine (which was your unfounded and ridiculous assertion). Do you actually believe that Trump's, Tucker Carlson's and other MAGAt's support of Putin has something to do with the Mexican border? If so, you truly are a moron.

I also said that, despite their constant whining and posturing, Republicans have not floated any meaningful proposals to fix the border and immigration since Dubya had the rug pulled out from under him by the wingnut fringe 20 years ago. Trump's 47 miles of new wall did nothing meaningful to curb human or drug trafficking and is about 1900 miles short of what he promised the American people (and Mexico didn't pay a dime for it as Trump promised).

It seems to me that you're, once again, just parroting wingnut talking points without the knowledge or self-awareness necessary to recognize the disingenuous, specious nature of your argument. But at least another deranged narcissist besides Trump agrees with you.

[Ike Bana]

Originally Posted by whell

This post is simply a hate-filled crap bomb that doesn't reflect reality.

I second the bullshit. The Republican party doesn't give a shit about human trafficking. Your statement that no one wants Ukraine to lose the war is mega bullshit. The GOP is the Party of Putin. The GOP has allowed itself to become under the control of radical fascists...the Freedom Caucus plus another 20 or so radical anti-democracy traitors who want to bring down the way this country has been governed for almost 250 years. Why? Because you know you're outnumbered, it's more and more a plural culture. And the only people who want the America of the 1980's anymore are white supremacist christian nationalists. And as far as "offshoring" is concerned, it was created by corporate American and supported by a deregulating mob from the Republican Party, and a pack of Republican appointed Federal Judges who gave control of this country to...

In order to understand the brutality of American capitalism, you have to start on the plantation.

As Trump's legal position crumbles he becomes more and more unhinged, you motherfuckers don't give a shit and 46% of you will vote for him again if the party is stupid enough to give him the nomination. Trump is clinically severely emotionally and cognitively disorganized. He makes even less sense than he did before. But you will vote for him anyway because you think there's something in it for you personally.

This is the fucking reality.

[Rajoo]

Originally Posted by finnbow

It seems to me that you're, once again, just parroting wingnut talking points without the knowledge or self-awareness necessary to recognize the disingenuous nature of your argument. But at least another deranged narcissist besides Trump agrees with you.

Besides, isn't the authority to authorize funding vested with the Congress?
What are they doing about it other than bickering?
Is there a comprehensive plan?

No, but we will have a shut down because the brats who represent 2% of our population cannot have it their way.


Using the term defending our southern border is itself another Big Lie, the border is not being attacked. Encroached by civilians illegally, but definitely not attacked with armaments because if so, we will have our military there.

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by Rajoo

Besides, isn't the authority to authorize funding vested with the Congress?
What are they doing about it other than bickering?
Is there a comprehensive plan?

Not only is there not a comprehensive plan, Republicans don't want one. It would remove the hot-button issue for their nativist base. Moreover, if they put forth a plan that was truly comprehensive, the base would revolt as it did 20 years ago, shrieking "amnesty" and spewing replacement theory nonsense.

What's remarkable is that Whell seems to laboring under the impression that the MAGA nihilists in Congress actually want to address the nation's problems through legislation (it is their job, after all). For example, in the last Congress, Jim Jordan did not sponsor a single bill that became law, yet he has time to show up almost daily on Fox News. They see their job as spewing performative nonsense intended only to impress credulous MAGAts like Whell.

[Chicks]

Originally Posted by whell

“[In] 2021, a load of 50 million fentanyl pills, laced pills, have come across the southern border. The cartels are making $13 billion a year doing human smuggling. This is outrageous what is going on right now. And it is affecting every single state,” Graves said.[/I]

So what's your answer? Nixon's "war on drugs"?. That worked out well, eh? : rolleyes:

They wouldn't be bringing in fentanyl pills if there weren't customers. The addicts are evenly spread throughout Red and Blue states. Are you willing to pay for treating millions of addicts if we somehow (unrealistic) manage to shut off the supply?

[Rajoo]

Originally Posted by Chicks

So what's your answer? Nixon's "war on drugs"?. That worked out well, eh? : rolleyes:

They wouldn't be bringing in fentanyl pills if there weren't customers. The addicts are evenly spread throughout Red and Blue states. Are you willing to pay for treating millions of addicts if we somehow (unrealistic) manage to shut off the supply?

As finn posted, yet another hot button issue for the MAGAts to rave about.

Illegal immigrants are coming here in droves looking for jobs and they find them. If we did not need them, they will not be coming. So would we give them short term work permits like the Persian gulf countries? No and this makes no sense since they will then be documented and can be monitored.

As for Fentanyl, we have customers galore. Even if we are able to choke the supply, its a synthetic opioid and will be made here like meth used to be made.

And addiction to opioids is not easy to deal with medically, so no one will touch it either. Its a lose, lose proposition.