And what about moderate Republicans?

[Ike Bana]

A nice summary by Brett Stephens in the New York Times...

Lock Him Up

But what about more mainstream conservatives who know the 2020 election wasn’t stolen, that Jan. 6 was a disgrace for the ages...

They are, with few exceptions, supine.

Their excuses for Trump have run the gamut. There were legally inaccurate claims about the Presidential Records Act, which does not give Trump whatever time he wants to return documents to the archivist of the United States. There was the idea that Trump held on to the documents because he was a hoarder or that he had little idea what was in them or that any secrets they contained were not serious. The counts of the indictment powerfully indicate otherwise.

There’s also the whataboutism regarding Clinton’s emails and the documents found in Biden’s offices and garage. But the people who argue that Comey’s recommendation was a travesty of justice cannot now argue that Trump should be let off on far more serious charges.

Stephens left a few things out though...

My wife has been seeing an alcoholic family (pretty much all of them) for some time now. The father is a judge in one of Chicago's collar counties...they are wealthy and they are Trump voters. For one stated reason only, their income tax bill. They will always vote Republican regardless of the criminal behavior or the stupid behavior (read George W. Bush)...for no other reason than their mistaken notion that they will be better off financially with a Republican President. So there are the wealthy who are more than willing to look the other way.

And the other multitude of single issue voters. The racists, the anti-Semites, the homophobes, the transphobes, the gunners, and those who believe that the medical care that American women receive is any of their fucking business.

So there are your Repubican voters, and in my humble opinion, they're worse than the idiotic MAGA, more despicable assholes than hard core Trumpers. They're no better than all the good little nazis throwing up the one armed salute all up and down the streets of Germany in the 1930's because they figured there was something in it for them, and who gives a shit about a few millions Jews.

The most hopeful thing I've read is that independent American voters, by recent polls, support the Trump indictment. The numbers prior to the releast of the indictment was 48%, now has risen to 61% according to PEW and GALLUP.

[donquixote99]

You will see even higher numbers disfavoring the Trumpism if there is violence from his followers. But still there are enough that they can do a lot of damage, even take over if not fought with courage and determination.

[RickeyM]

Hopefully more and more of those what's in it for me folks will wake up. In the meantime the Independents and Democrats must help steer the country in the right direction.

[Ike Bana]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

You will see even higher numbers disfavoring the Trumpism if there is violence from his followers. But still there are enough that they can do a lot of damage, even take over if not fought with courage and determination.

The problem for me is that if we take into account all of the single issues and the tax breaks, and the bigotry, etc., that we still end up with 46% of the vote going to the Republican, pretty much any Republican. And that makes the possibilities of the Electoral College vote going the wrong way too close for comfort. The Democrat could win the popular vote by 10 million and the fucked up Electoral College vote could still go the wrong way.

[donquixote99]

Can't let that happen if a big fascist is up for the Repubs.

[Dondilion]

Originally Posted by Ike Bana

The Democrat could win the popular vote by 10 million and the fucked up Electoral College vote could still go the wrong way.

That is what the Founding Fathers organized. They were wary of the "tyranny of the majority". Furthermore, the formatting is cued to a somewhat implicit autonomy of states. There is an underlying thrust to correct, balance, and pull back.

[donquixote99]

Originally Posted by Dondilion

That is what the Founding Fathers organized. They were wary of the "tyranny of the majority". Furthermore, the formatting is cued to a somewhat implicit autonomy of states. There is an underlying thrust to correct, balance, and pull back.

The good work of the founders, and it was pretty good in many respects, is not holy and sacred. And it's not like we follow it anyway. The founders envisioned an independent electoral college that would deliberate and say NO to the majority if they voted for a demagogue like Trump. That was a big part of it's purpose. Since we don't have that, we've left the Constitution behind already. So I certainly don't favor following our bastardized Constitution if it means the racist fascist gets back in.

[Dondilion]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

The good work of the founders, and it was pretty good in many respects, is not holy and sacred. And it's not like we follow it anyway. The founders envisioned an independent electoral college that would deliberate and say NO to the majority if they voted for a demagogue like Trump. That was a big part of it's purpose. Since we don't have that, we've left the Constitution behind already. So I certainly don't favor following our bastardized Constitution if it means the racist fascist gets back in.

I believe there are processes to make legal changes.

[Rajoo]

Originally Posted by Dondilion

That is what the Founding Fathers organized. They were wary of the "tyranny of the majority". Furthermore, the formatting is cued to a somewhat implicit autonomy of states. There is an underlying thrust to correct, balance, and pull back.

Except we have tyranny of the minority, the swing states. Lets be real here, the presidential election is decided by just a handful of states. Red states have a big city problem, their urban dwellers predominantly vote for Democrats. So they come up with voter suppression schemes to limit Dem votes.

[donquixote99]

Originally Posted by Dondilion

I believe there are processes to make legal changes.

Changes all fall on a continuum, a sliding scale from strictly legal at one end, to based on political power regardless of legality in the middle, to based on pure brute force at the other end. It's pretty rare for meaningful change to happen way on the 'strictly legal' end.