Make Ukraine a NATO member nation...right now.

[Ike Bana]

Originally Posted by RickeyM

That's it, a copout vote? Excuse me if I remain unconvinced.

Any vote that doesnt go to the Democrat is a vote for the Republican. And Republican politicians, seen one youve seen them all. With the possible exception of Cheney and Kinzinger, they're either MAGA, or looking the other way. Lest we forget, over the time Trump was in office, Kinzinger voted with Trump 90% of the time, and in the 115th Congress he voted with Trump 99% of the time. Cheney voted with Trump 92% of the time Trump was in office.

[whell]

Originally Posted by RickeyM

That's it, a copout vote? Excuse me if I remain unconvinced.

Well, that's where my sentiments lie in June of 2023. If Biden is the nominee for the Dems, there no chance I'm voting Democrat. If Trump's the nominee I'm not voting Republican. A lot can change between now and November 2024, including who might be the nominee for both major parties.

I'm not here to "convince" you of anything. You asked a question, and I answered it. If you think that a vote for a minor party is a copout vote, that's on you. It's not far-fetched to say that voting for either of the major party candidates hasn't treated this nation well.

[whell]

Originally Posted by finnbow

I most certainly don't buy into the "no collusion, no obstruction" mantra like you do as it is unequivocally true that Trump's campaign did indeed coordinate with Russia as well as solicit and welcome Russian help.

I've never stated I agreed with any mantra, and I've also responded to you on this topic countless times. I'm tired of wasting keystrokes on this with you.

So, for the last time: https://apnews.com/article/donald-tr...67f8d13ed9a9a5

Special counsel Robert Mueller found no evidence President Donald Trump’s campaign “conspired or coordinated” with Russia to influence the 2016 presidential election but reached no conclusion on whether Trump obstructed justice.

That's all you need to know. Sure, you can bloviate about other details, and choose to make more out of them than Mueller's report did if you want to. You can also choose to make more out of Mueller's testimony, where he stated:

“The president was not exculpated for the acts that he allegedly committed,” Mueller told the House judiciary committee, adding that Trump could theoretically be indicted after he leaves office.

To which I have stated more than once: It was Mueller's job to prosecute, not to exculpate. Also, Trump has been out of office for 2.5 years, and there are no efforts to indict him for anything connected to the Mueller investigation.

End of story.

Now, if something changes and he is indicted for any of the items covered in the Mueller report, we can discuss this again at that time.

[whell]

Originally Posted by Ike Bana

Any vote that doesn't go to the Democrat is a vote for the Republican.

History doesn't agree with you on this. Look no further than the 1992 election. Ross Perot came away with almost 19% of the vote. Clinton beat Bush by 6.5% of the popular vote. There's a probability that if Perot didn't run in the '92 election, Bush would have has a second term.

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by whell

...To which I have stated more than once: It was Mueller's job to prosecute, not to exculpate. Also, Trump has been out of office for 2.5 years, and there are no efforts to indict him for anything connected to the Mueller investigation.

End of story.

Now, if something changes and he is indicted for any of the items covered in the Mueller report, we can discuss this again at that time.

So, your barometer for presidential conduct is not being indicted and convicted? Soliciting, coordinating and accepting Russian assistance (while working on a hotel development deal in Moscow and lying about it) and then obstructing the subsequent investigation is defensible conduct? You MAGAts sure have low standards as long as the miscreant promises you an autocracy.

[Ike Bana]

Originally Posted by whell

I've never stated I agreed with any mantra, and I've also responded to you on this topic countless times. I'm tired of wasting keystrokes on this with you.

But you go ahead and waste all those idiotic keystrokes anyway. Do you ever listen to what you say? Do you ever re-read what you write?

Un-fuckin-believable.

[Ike Bana]

Originally Posted by whell

History doesn't agree with you on this.

Bullshit. Don't call it "history" when its nothing more than another ignorant opinion outta you.

[whell]

Originally Posted by finnbow

So, your barometer for presidential conduct is not being indicted and convicted? Soliciting, coordinating and accepting Russian assistance (while working on a hotel development deal in Moscow and lying about it) and then obstructing the subsequent investigation is defensible conduct? You MAGAts sure have low standards as long as the miscreant promises you an autocracy.

Laughable. The fact that Mueller did not indict the former President didn't impede you and others from starting, participating, and making accusations in the thread called "The Trump Crime Family" for years. So, spare me your comments about my "barometer".

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by whell

Laughable. The fact that Mueller did not indict the former President didn't impede you and others from starting, participating, and making accusations in the thread called "The Trump Crime Family" for years. So, spare me your comments about my "barometer".

And the fact that our accusations about soliciting, coordinating and accepting Russian assistance (while working on a hotel development deal in Moscow and lying about it) and then obstructing the subsequent investigation ended up being demonstrably true hasn't caused you to rethink your reflexive defense of all things Trump. You just can't help yourself.

Meanwhile, Dear Leader is about to be indicted for multiple felonies in DC, FL and GA to add to his recent felony indictments and his organization's conviction in NY. You're going to need to up your game if you intend to again convince yourself of Trump's innocence.

[Rajoo]

WASHINGTON — A sprawling report released Tuesday by a Republican-controlled Senate panel that spent three years investigating Russia’s interference in the 2016 election laid out an extensive web of contacts between Trump campaign advisers and Kremlin officials and other Russians, including at least one intelligence officer and others tied to the country’s spy services.

The report by the Senate Intelligence Committee, totaling nearly 1,000 pages, drew to a close one of the highest-profile congressional investigations in recent memory and could be the last word from an official government inquiry about the expansive Russian campaign to sabotage the 2016 election.

The Russian government disrupted an American election to help Mr. Trump become president, Russian intelligence services viewed members of the Trump campaign as easily manipulated, and some of Mr. Trump’s advisers were eager for the help from an American adversary.

And what do we call this? C O L L U S I O N.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/18/u...ce-report.html