What got Trump elected in 2016

[donquixote99]

Originally Posted by GChief

I feel ya... work with many. I am trying to do my part though, I have broken down more than a few barriers and "opened" a few minds on both teams. I don't try and change their conservative views just as I don't try and change someone's progressive views, I just try to get them to have some empathy for others POV and then have the how do we compromise discussion.

It can be fun 8 beers into it...

OK, if everyone can 'open a few minds' I suppose that would add up. Not everyone has your skliz though I fear. And I'm past the point where an 8-beer night is an option.... But I think we should work also on disabling the the right-wing media ecosystem that created millions of MAGAs.

[GChief]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

OK, if everyone can 'open a few minds' I suppose that would add up. Not everyone has your skliz though I fear. And I'm past the point where an 8-beer night is an option.... But I think we should work also on disabling the the right-wing media ecosystem that created millions of MAGAs.

And this is a big part of the problem. People would just rather go to their corners and dig in. Nothing is going to change and it is only going to get worst.

I have been "observing" here for a couple of years. Most have their heels dug in and it is mostly just a bunch of the same old noise.

Easier to be a keyboard warrior with spittle flying from ones fingers than actually be pro-active and try to make lasting change.

And my only "skill" is empathy and understanding both teams "POV".

[donquixote99]

You don't appreciate what you do intuitively. You have signal 'we're on the same team at least in some ways, avoid triggering people, back-off and smooth as necessary, etc etc. In any case, dealing with friends/acquaintances over beer is much much different that dealing with typists on the Intwrnet. The lack of human connection amplifies the verbal competition. Like, that's mostly all there is.

What happens on the Internet is more a 'public debate.' No one ever convinces the other debater of anything in a debate. Each feels like a champion for their side. Too much ego on the line. A well moderated civil debate can clarify things though, especially for the audience. Name calling of course never enlightened anyone.

Only friends talking with friends (not debate) ever changed a participant's mind on anything. Which is where we came in.

[GChief]

Yep "extremes" tend to navigate to forums, they also think they are normal lol

There are a few sad little men here being tough guys behind a keyboard. Sad thing is they probably do not realize it.

I have had "luck" with total strangers, but as you mention, it was face to face.

[Mark B]

Originally Posted by GChief

See you went straight to my last sentence! My point is both extremes hate/fear each other so much that there is zero dialog other that rage filled name calling so nothing is going to change. The division will just continue and grow until good fate discussions can be had with compromises reached somewhere in the middle. Any of the polarizing issues can be addressed, just not by either extreme.

Cheers

I disagree with the bolded text. I'm speaking of the United States as a whole, not forums like politicalchat.org.


I'd like you to address the following:

• Right wing extremists are by their numbers and affiliation a major force in the Republican party.

• Left wing extremists are much fewer in number and are largely unaffiliated with the Democratic party.

Therefore there is no equivalency as to the danger these extremist wings pose to the United States.

[Ike Bana]

Originally Posted by GChief

Yep "extremes" tend to navigate to forums, they also think they are normal lol

There are a few sad little men here being tough guys behind a keyboard. Sad thing is they probably do not realize it.

I have had "luck" with total strangers, but as you mention, it was face to face.

Yeah well...the last 6 or 7 years have shown me and the blonde that there are some friends and family who we can no longer tolerate. Its pretty difficult for us to deal with the racism, sexism, anti-semitism, bigotry, LGBTQ-phobia, xenophobia, thoughts and prayers, and general subhuman behavior that goes hand in hand with being a current day American conservative and Republican voter.

Just can't stomach what we used to be able to tolerate from certain "friends" and certain "family" anymore, just because they were once friends and family. The most problematic shit for me for some reason these days is the fucking hypocracy of "my body, my choice" when it applies to control over vaccinations, but does not apply to a pregnant woman's control over her own body. To be honest, just thinking about it, I can feel this rising internal agitation that makes me want to just slap the shit out of somebody. Particularly the ones who just can't seem to mind their own fucking business when it comes to decisions made by a woman and her doctor.

Then again, it probably goes all they way back to Vietnam and the two incidents that "radicalized"me. The Kent State Massacre, May 4, 1970 and the May 8, 1970 New York City "hard hat riot." That one awful week in early May 1970 when I realized there are two sides in this country and I realized that as far as I'm concerned, people need to decide which fucking side they are on.

[Oerets]

I have also been forced to rethink acquaintances, friends and family. Get by not sugar coating their BS give it right back. Let the chips fall where they may. That I fear was the one thing that should of been done more in the past. By thinking the madness will pass and sanity will return.

It is a cult and needs exposure.

[Rajoo]

Originally Posted by GChief

See you went straight to my last sentence! My point is both extremes hate/fear each other so much that there is zero dialog other that rage filled name calling so nothing is going to change. The division will just continue and grow until good fate discussions can be had with compromises reached somewhere in the middle. Any of the polarizing issues can be addressed, just not by either extreme.

Cheers

This is unadulterated BS. You expect extremes to have a dialog? Good people on both sides nonsense?

For instance, the extreme right believes Trump lost because of election fraud. No fraud anywhere, Trump's own AG said no fraud, Trumpers lost 50+ lawsuits, 50 states certified the EC votes, Fox lost to Dominion promoting election fraud and settled for $700+M and we still have Trump claiming election fraud and 60+% of the Republicans agreeing. What do you want me to say to these people?

Typically extremes are ignored or contained and the agreements comes from people in the middle which will have more overlap. One cannot have any sort of dialog with irrational people.

Why are we experiencing high energy cost? Ask a wingnut and they will say Keystone. Or as the Dotard said, drill baby baby. How many years does it take for a well to produce if it can? Ten or more years and how is this going to help our energy cost now?

Real reason for high energy cost is because production dropped to precipitous levels because of economic shut down during the pandemic. And with prevailing high prices, where is the incentive to produce more? Try explaining this to a wingnut and they will respond with its the "Biden economy".

On a recent focus group of Repubs, something like one in 37 heard that Trump got convicted of sexual assault recently. One assumes that these are the so called people in the middle of the Repub pack and shudder to think what the fright wing thinks.

[GChief]

I see the other extreme is strong in this one ... lol

But on a serious note. I can only go by my personal experience in my majority "conservatives" line of work, I have face to face, heart to hearts often with and have to engage "them" daily. I am not seeing what you guys are assuming. Its there but far from the majority with the "ones" in my orbit.

Cheers

And you guys are mostly preaching to the choir as I agree with most of what any of you guys are saying. Just not the lumping "them" all together as I do not see it. Its easy to not engage (which I assume many of you don't) and just add to the hate.

[Rajoo]

Originally Posted by GChief

I see the other extreme is strong in this one ... lol

But on a serious note. I can only go by my personal experience in my majority "conservatives" line of work, I have face to face, heart to hearts often with and have to engage "them" daily. I am not seeing what you guys are assuming. Its there but far from the majority with the "ones" in my orbit.

Cheers

And you guys are mostly preaching to the choir as I agree with most of what any of you guys are saying. Just not the lumping "them" all together as I do not see it. Its easy to not engage (which I assume many of you don't) and just add to the hate.

What is the demographic in your line of work?

If your workplace has a majority of right wingers (please try not to call them conservatives) and you need to engage with them, why do you feel compelled that I (we) need to see their POV. Its in the news everyday what their goals are, heck take a look at the Scotus and that will give us a very good indication.

No abortions, Christianity as state religion, gift a newborn an AR-15, build a wall on the southern border, don't say gay .......................