Another Mass Shooting in the Good Ol' USA

[whell]

Originally Posted by finnbow

You still have not offered your view on what is/are the primary factor(s) responsible for the more than daily occurrence of mass shootings in the USA (and firearm deaths being the leading cause of child death) if it is not the unhindered access to firearms.

If we continue to focus on only guns and not on the shooter(s), we'll never find a solution. Here's why:

Mass shooters overwhelmingly fit a certain profile, say Jillian Peterson and James Densley, which means it’s possible to ID and treat them before they commit violence.

POLITICO: Can you take us through the profile of mass shooters that emerged from your research?

Peterson: There’s this really consistent pathway. Early childhood trauma seems to be the foundation, whether violence in the home, sexual assault, parental suicides, extreme bullying. Then you see the build toward hopelessness, despair, isolation, self-loathing, and oftentimes rejection from peers. That turns into a really identifiable crisis point where they’re acting differently. Sometimes they have previous suicide attempts.

What’s different from traditional suicide is that the self-hate turns against a group. They start asking themselves, “Whose fault is this?” Is it a racial group or women or a religious group, or is it my classmates? The hate turns outward. There’s also this quest for fame and notoriety.

What focusing on guns will get you is a myopic focus on only part of the solution. One of the points that the professors make is that a mass shooting will beget a mass shooting because those who fit the psych profile of a shooter will relate to and want to imitate another shooter.

Also, the shooter isn't only about committing an act of violence against (in the case of school shootings) the kids. These acts are DRIVEN by the shooter's desire to kill themselves:

Peterson: I don’t think most people realize that these are suicides, in addition to homicides. Mass shooters design these to be their final acts. When you realize this, it completely flips the idea that someone with a gun on the scene is going to deter this. If anything, that’s an incentive for these individuals. They are going in to be killed.

It’s hard to focus on the suicide because these are horrific homicides. But it’s a critical piece because we know so much from the suicide prevention world that can translate here.

This is the reason that you really can't view mass shootings through the lens of "typical" murder crimes. They're different. The motivations are different.

Finally, given the shooter's motivation to commit a final act of "payback" before their suicide, focusing on the type of weapon is useful only to the extent that the earliest shootings created the template for what came later. If the earliest "shooters" decided to use the Oklahoma City bombing as the template, I suspect we'd be talking about how to restrict access to fertilizer.

[Chicks]

Originally Posted by whell

Peterson: I don’t think most people realize that these are suicides, in addition to homicides. Mass shooters design these to be their final acts. When you realize this, it completely flips the idea that someone with a gun on the scene is going to deter this. If anything, that’s an incentive for these individuals. They are going in to be killed.

Yet the Reich-Wing nutjobs are screaming about arming teachers.

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by whell

If we continue to focus on only guns and not on the shooter(s), we'll never find a solution. Here's why:

Mass shooters overwhelmingly fit a certain profile, say Jillian Peterson and James Densley, which means it’s possible to ID and treat them before they commit violence...

Meanwhile, the GOP opposes both enhanced school mental health services and "red flag" laws. Moreover, Dr James Knoll, the Director of Forensic Psychiatry and Associate Professor of Psychiatry at SUNY Upstate Medical University in Syracuse, NY says that:

"We believe that the ritualized hunt for the shooter’s motive is usually an exercise in fruitless speculation and wasted resources. When pursued by the media, this quest almost always lacks the necessary data to reach a sound determination. Moreover, these exercises rarely yield any useful or actionable information that would help reduce the likelihood of future mass shootings. Almost invariably, we learn little more than what we have known for many years-that mass shooters are typically (though not always) angry, aggrieved, emotionally unstable, or socially isolated males who are seeking retribution or revenge for perceived mistreatment, rejection, or humiliation."

Your "solution" fails to acknowledge that mental illness is no more prevalent here than in other First World countries, yet we have far more school shootings due to the ease of such disturbed people getting their hands on guns. Secondly, your "solution" would compel mass mental health screenings of America's children and young adults, something that never could be passed nor permitted by many parents, particularly those of the wingnut variety (hell, they already oppose books and the teaching of US history).

[RickeyM]

Originally Posted by finnbow

Your "solution" fails to acknowledge that mental illness is no more prevalent here than in other First World countries, yet we have far more school shootings due to the ease of such disturbed people getting their hands on guns. Secondly, your "solution" would compel mass mental health screenings of America's children and young adults, something that never could be passed nor permitted by many parents, particularly those of the wingnut variety (hell, they already oppose books and the teaching of US history).

Once again, more guns aren't making us any safer.

[whell]

Originally Posted by finnbow

Meanwhile, the GOP opposes both enhanced school mental health services and "red flag" laws. Moreover, Dr James Knoll, the Director of Forensic Psychiatry and Associate Professor of Psychiatry at SUNY Upstate Medical University in Syracuse, NY says that:

"We believe that the ritualized hunt for the shooter’s motive is usually an exercise in fruitless speculation and wasted resources. When pursued by the media, this quest almost always lacks the necessary data to reach a sound determination. Moreover, these exercises rarely yield any useful or actionable information that would help reduce the likelihood of future mass shootings. Almost invariably, we learn little more than what we have known for many years-that mass shooters are typically (though not always) angry, aggrieved, emotionally unstable, or socially isolated males who are seeking retribution or revenge for perceived mistreatment, rejection, or humiliation."

So, your "professor" who admittedly hasn't studied the issue, dismisses it by saying:

1) the media shouldn't pursue it
2) we won't learn anything new by studying it.

Now that's a curious scientific mind for you.

Regardless of his statement above, the reverse is true and has been demonstrated. Here it is again:

A new study indicates there is an association, not a causal relationship, between mass shooting and undiagnosed, untreated psychiatric illness.

Researchers found psychiatric illnesses including schizophrenia, mood disorders, delusional disorder, severe personality disorders and others.

Individuals who suffer from psychiatric illness and get appropriate treatment are not any more violent than the rest of the population.

About 87% were misdiagnosed and wrongly treated or undiagnosed and untreated.

As far as other countries, crime rates in the US, as posted previously, have been trending down in the United States. The US crime rate actually has come down to be nearly on par with Australia, a country you stated you were "impressed with".

But you go right ahead and keep a closed mind about it Finn. I'd expect noting less.

[Rajoo]

Originally Posted by whell

As far as other countries, crime rates in the US, as posted previously, have been trending down in the United States. The US crime rate actually has come down to be nearly on par with Australia, a country you stated you were "impressed with".

But you go right ahead and keep a closed mind about it Finn. I'd expect noting less.

Applying your logic, if potholes in sidewalks cause people to break their legs, we should all strengthen our legs and not ask that the potholes to be fixed.

Also we are not talking about crime in general here but mass shootings, especially those with assault weapons in schools. Here is the first post.

Originally Posted by RickeyM

14 students, 1 teacher killed in Texas elementary school shooting

In the good ol' US of A where the Repubs consistently oppose any and all gun control and offer no solutions to the problem. No other country in the civilized world has mass shootings like we do here. America first right?
FWIW is wasn't an immigrant that illegally crossed the border.

[RickeyM]

For once I've got to congratulate whell. Usually a fountain of right-wing media talking points. He posted

As far as other countries, crime rates in the US, as posted previously, have been trending down in the United States.

That one sentence directly contradicts what the GOP has been saying during the Biden administration. By implication, blaming Biden and the Democrats for a soaring crime rate. Thank you sir whell, thank you.

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by whell

So, your "professor" who admittedly hasn't studied the issue...

He didn't say that.

[donquixote99]

Originally Posted by finnbow

He didn't say that.

But whell says he did, because he needed to say something bad about the guy. So now and forever, it's the 'truth,' he will never back down.

[whell]

Originally Posted by finnbow

He didn't say that.

Sure he did. We believe that the ritualized hunt for the shooter’s motive is usually an exercise in fruitless speculation and wasted resources.

Does this indicate to you that it's something he spends a lot of time on? I don't, but you can take from that statement whatever you wish.

And with all the info I've provided, THAT'S what you decide to focus on? Figures...