Roe v. Wade Overturned

[whell]

Originally Posted by Rajoo

This is better than flipping the bird.

Michigan medical students walk out on an anti-abortion keynote speaker

https://www.npr.org/2022/07/25/11135...eynote-speaker

The ACLU on the subject of free speech on college campuses:

The ACLU believes that instead of symbolic gestures to silence ugly viewpoints, colleges and universities have to step up their efforts to recruit diverse faculty, students, and administrators; increase resources for student counseling; and raise awareness about bigotry and its history.

And this:

Q: How does the ACLU propose to ensure equal opportunity in education?
A: Universities are obligated to create an environment that fosters tolerance and mutual respect among members of the campus community, an environment in which all students can exercise their right to participate meaningfully in campus life without being subject to discrimination. To advance these values, campus administrators should:

• speak out loudly and clearly against expressions of racist, sexist, homophobic, and transphobic speech, as well as other instances of discrimination against marginalized individuals or groups;
• react promptly and firmly to counter acts of discriminatory harassment, intimidation, or invasion of privacy;
• create forums and workshops to raise awareness and promote dialogue on issues of race, sex, sexual orientation, and gender identity;
• intensify their efforts to ensure broad diversity among the student body, throughout the faculty, and within the college administration;
• vigilantly defend the equal rights of all speakers and all ideas to be heard, and promote a climate of robust and uninhibited dialogue and debate open to all views, no matter how controversial.

So, first, kudos to U of M for having the guts to speak. They were doing the right thing.

Second, shame on the folks who walked out, no doubt retreating to their "safe spaces" where they can commune with other close-minded folks who can't tolerate diversity of opinion and shun folks who might think differently than they do.

[donquixote99]

Originally Posted by whell

The ACLU on the subject of free speech on college campuses:

The ACLU believes that instead of symbolic gestures to silence ugly viewpoints, colleges and universities have to step up their efforts to recruit diverse faculty, students, and administrators; increase resources for student counseling; and raise awareness about bigotry and its history.

And this:

Q: How does the ACLU propose to ensure equal opportunity in education?
A: Universities are obligated to create an environment that fosters tolerance and mutual respect among members of the campus community, an environment in which all students can exercise their right to participate meaningfully in campus life without being subject to discrimination. To advance these values, campus administrators should:

• speak out loudly and clearly against expressions of racist, sexist, homophobic, and transphobic speech, as well as other instances of discrimination against marginalized individuals or groups;
• react promptly and firmly to counter acts of discriminatory harassment, intimidation, or invasion of privacy;
• create forums and workshops to raise awareness and promote dialogue on issues of race, sex, sexual orientation, and gender identity;
• intensify their efforts to ensure broad diversity among the student body, throughout the faculty, and within the college administration;
• vigilantly defend the equal rights of all speakers and all ideas to be heard, and promote a climate of robust and uninhibited dialogue and debate open to all views, no matter how controversial.

So, first, kudos to U of M for having the guts to speak. They were doing the right thing.

Second, shame on the folks who walked out, no doubt retreating to their "safe spaces" where they can commune with other close-minded folks who can't tolerate diversity of opinion and shun folks who might think differently than they do.

So the speaker has a right to register his views, but the people who walk out do not? And actually deserve shame? Does freedom of speech mean people are obligated to listen?

Your cheap insults about safe spaces, etc. are not civil. Shame on you.

[whell]

Originally Posted by Chicks

Justice Department sues Idaho over its near-total abortion ban

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/justi...185747773.html

Thanks for fighting the good fight, Garland. Now, when are you going to put the Trump crime family and their enablers behind bars, for life!?

This one is going to be interesting. I suspect Garland is more interested in the contest than the outcome, however.

The federal suit alleges the ID law is in violation of the Emergency Medical Treatment and Labor Act. From NBC:

Under the Emergency Medical Treatment and Labor Act (EMTALA), every hospital in the U.S. that receives Medicare funds must provide "necessary stabilizing treatment to patients who arrive at their emergency departments while experiencing a medical emergency," the 17-page complaint reads. In some circumstances, the necessary medical treatment is an abortion.

"This may be the case, for example, when a woman is undergoing a miscarriage that threatens septic infection or hemorrhage or is suffering from severe preeclampsia," Garland said.

First, for complications such as severe preeclampsia, abortion is not the only effective form of treatment. For severe preeclampsia, particularly in later stages of maternity but also mid-stages, delivery of the baby is a much more common form of treatment.

Under the ID law, if the physician can demonstrate that abortion was the only effective option in a particular circumstance, they could avoid prosecution. However, in many of these cases, they'd probably be required to certify that other forms of treatment were attempted and were ineffective. It would be pretty tough, again using the severe preeclampsia example, to demonstrate that other means of treatment were ineffective if delivery of the child was not attempted. I can see where that would put the Pro-Choice crowd in a tough spot.

Second, the EMTALA describes the conditions under which a hospital can receive reimbursements under the Medicare system. Seems to me that the threshold of proof for Garland and company is pretty high. They'd need to demonstrate that denying an abortion, in the face of other more frequently used and effective treatments for medical complications due to pregnancy, amounts to a failure to provide "necessary stabilizing treatment to patients who arrive at their emergency departments while experiencing a medical emergency." Seems like a pretty tough case to make. Along with the potential outcome that failing to provide an abortion as the only means of treatment for a pregnancy complication would put Medicare reimbursements for any other medical service in jeopardy.

[whell]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

So the speaker has a right to register his views, but the people who walk out do not? And actually deserve shame? Does freedom of speech mean people are obligated to listen?

Your cheap insults about safe spaces, etc. are not civil. Shame on you.

Sure they have the right to walk out. Yes, their behavior was shameful. They knew she was going to be there, so they showed up for the keynote address for the purpose of staging a walk-out.

And my comments on "safe spaces" in this case were spot on.

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by whell

Sure they have the right to walk out. Yes, their behavior was shameful. And my comments on "safe spaces" in this case were spot on.

You don't get to pick the means by which others with whom you disagree choose to peacefully express their views. Indeed, if they did it a manner you were comfortable with, it wouldn't be noticed (and would thereby not constitute a protest).

I suppose if they wore red hats, sprayed bear spray and attacked a speaker you didn't like with a flagpole or fire extinguisher, you'd defend it, eh?

[donquixote99]

Originally Posted by whell

Sure they have the right to walk out. Yes, their behavior was shameful. They knew she was going to be there, so they showed up for the keynote address for the purpose of staging a walk-out.

And my comments on "safe spaces" in this case were spot on.

Within their rights but still shameful? OK, got it, "shameful," when you use it, just means something that displeases you.

And for doubling down on uncivility, back on ignore you go.

[Rajoo]

Originally Posted by whell

So, first, kudos to U of M for having the guts to speak. They were doing the right thing.

Second, shame on the folks who walked out, no doubt retreating to their "safe spaces" where they can commune with other close-minded folks who can't tolerate diversity of opinion and shun folks who might think differently than they do.

U of M did not speak, just a faculty member and from the students perspective an unwelcome one. After all it was a party to welcome them into the university.

Shame on folks who walked? What about their right to avoid listening to drivel and use their time more wisely like communing, aka really partying?

Come on man, aren't you a university graduate and don't you know how students protest on campus?

PS: whell, as usual you are spreading total BS here. To begin with the UM annual White Coat Ceremony is hosted by UM for their incoming medical students.

White Coat Ceremony

White Coat CeremonyEach year, approximately 170 outstanding scholars are formally welcomed as the University of Michigan's newest class of medical students. This tradition, known as the White Coat Ceremony, marks an educational milestone: Entry into clinical medicine. Our incoming medical students gather in the presence of their families, mentors, guests, faculty members and leaders of the Medical School to formally receive the cloak of their future profession — the white coat — and you can help make it a reality.

The keynote speaker is just window dressing for what is a welcoming arty for the incoming medical students. You claim that they came to their party just so they can stage a walkout?

https://alumni.medicine.umich.edu/ev...-coat-ceremony

[Chicks]

Originally Posted by Rajoo

Come on man, aren't you a university graduate and don't you know how students protest on campus?

If he did go to school, guess which fraternity he would have been a member of (along with Greggie, Dougie and the other Hitler Youth).

https://youtu.be/3G3Rh6izcp0

[Rajoo]

Originally Posted by Chicks

If he did go to school, guess which fraternity he would have been a member of (along with Greggie, Dougie and the other Hitler Youth).

https://youtu.be/3G3Rh6izcp0

I would love to invite whell for a tour of UC Berkley campus just watch him faint.
Some local wingnuts call it the Republic of Berkeley. Believe its envy?

(I am a frequent visitor, not a graduate of UC Berkeley, Protest Capitol. )

[Rajoo]

Meanwhile,

voters in Kansas resoundingly voted “no” on a constitutional amendment that would have enabled the state legislature to restrict abortion rights, the Associated Press projected. Abortion rights will now continue to be protected under the Kansas constitution. The vote marked the first electoral test since the Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade in June.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...chigan-kansas/