Our Police State

[Chicks]

Homeland Security Was Destined to Become a Secret Police Force

https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-c...t-police-force

As we learn more about what is happening in Portland—as footage of federal troops waging war on protesters floods social media, and as the President threatens to send his foot soldiers to other large cities—we are watching the perfect and perhaps inevitable combination of a domestic-security superagency and a President who rejects all mechanisms of accountability, including the Senate confirmation process. What we are also seeing is a perfect storm of fear: the legacy of fear cultivated in the wake of 9/11, and the fear that Trump campaigned on in 2016 and continues to campaign on now.

[Mark B]

Originally Posted by Chicks

Homeland Security Was Destined to Become a Secret Police Force

https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-c...t-police-force

Allowing the President to name someone as acting Secretary of a Federal Agency without ever intending to go through the Senate confirmation process is one of the gaps that "no one imagined could happen" that needs to be closed by legislation.

[FordGT90]

Originally Posted by Mark B

Charges should be brought against the Feds that assaulted peaceful citizens in Portand, but who does law enforcement charge with those offenses since those Feds displayed no identification?

It hasn't been a problem in the past to identify plain clothed cops. They know the identity of the 112 agents deployed and they can use that to figure out who did it. It just takes more effort than having an ID to look up.

[Mark B]

Originally Posted by FordGT90

It hasn't been a problem in the past to identify plain clothed cops. They know the identity of the 112 agents deployed and they can use that to figure out who did it. It just takes more effort than having an ID to look up.

I agree that information should be requested. It's not clear if it was included in the lawsuit filed against the Dept. of Homeland Security by the Oregon DOJ.

https://www.doj.state.or.us/media-ho...investigation/

[FordGT90]

That's not something they would publically disclose for the safety of the agents. If they can establish a crime was committed then the agents identies would be disclosed to the court.

[donquixote99]

Originally Posted by FordGT90

Because protestors out number enforcers 10+ to 1 and the protestors prohibit the movement of law enforcers to get to crime scenes in a timely fashion? From law enforcement perspective, all protestors are the same: trouble.


Considering 21 officers were injured, yes.


There are limitations on assembly: see unlawful assembly.

Lawful assembly requires declaring a time and place of the protest and the city accommodates them. None of that happening lately.


He did. He approached the officers and attempted to engage with him. They did their job and drove him away.


Legal departments are reviewing evidence of misconduct submitted to them.

Interesting cite to that Free Dictionary discussion of 'unlawful assembly.' Under the first definition given authorities can declare any protest illegal, at whim. But reading on, one learns eventually that the courts have gainsayed such whims sometimes. That clearly depends not on any limit allowed in the definition you quote, but on 'balancing' it against other countervailing principles. Such balancing is a high form of judicial art, quite difficult to rely upon or predict. We are therefore in a grey and muddled area if the law, not on the firm ground you suggest exist for the use of force to 'drive away' a citizen who had the temerity to attempt to engage the minions of the state.

There us much more to say about your truly incredible post, but that will have to do for now .

[FordGT90]

I generally agree. There's a delicate balance between law, rights, and enforcement. There's been a collapse of enforcement lately which means the law is not enforceable. People are exercising their rights unchecked and unbalanced. Conflict is the natural response.

No one has the right to defile another's property which happened to the court house. The federal government, when state and local government fails to do so, has the ability to police its own property to protect the interests of the tax payer investment in said property. Sprinkle mob mentality on top and those federal agents not giving an inch completely makes sense to me.

[Not Insane]

Originally Posted by FordGT90

I generally agree. There's a delicate balance between law, rights, and enforcement. There's been a collapse of enforcement lately which means the law is not enforceable. People are exercising their rights unchecked and unbalanced. Conflict is the natural response.

No one has the right to defile another's property which happened to the court house. The federal government, when state and local government fails to do so, has the ability to police its own property to protect the interests of the tax payer investment in said property. Sprinkle mob mentality on top and those federal agents not giving an inch completely makes sense to me.

Again, like. That is exactly how I see it.

There is a reason nobody was being gassed at TEA party rallies.

[donquixote99]

Originally Posted by FordGT90

I generally agree. There's a delicate balance between law, rights, and enforcement. There's been a collapse of enforcement lately which means the law is not enforceable. People are exercising their rights unchecked and unbalanced. Conflict is the natural response.

No one has the right to defile another's property which happened to the court house. The federal government, when state and local government fails to do so, has the ability to police its own property to protect the interests of the tax payer investment in said property. Sprinkle mob mentality on top and those federal agents not giving an inch completely makes sense to me.

'Defile property' is about the worst thing imaginable, i suppose. Not giving an inch in the face of defilers so makes sense, even if 'not giving an inch' is a highly skewed and distorted description of 'poison them and break their bones.'

[Chicks]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

'Defile property' is about the worst thing imaginable, i suppose. Not giving an inch in the face of defilers so makes sense, even if 'not giving an inch' is a highly skewed and distorted description of 'poison them and break their bones.'

These two clowns would have been excellent, obedient little nazis.