mosque near ground zero ?

[piece-itpete]

Well then, I do agree with both of you.

Understand, many on the left do not agree with you.

Pete

[Fast_Eddie]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

Well then, I do agree with both of you.

Understand, many on the left do not agree with you.

Pete

It is your perception that "many" on the left do not agree. Just as it is the perception of many on the right that this Mosque fella agrees with the 9/11 attackers. Trouble is, what people perceive isn't always the truth.

I think most people "on the left", whoever those people are, mean exactly or something very similar to what we've been trying to explain. But it's much more expedient for people who disagree with them to paint their position differently.

And I just gotta say, on this one, I think this is nothing more than racism, plain and simple. Shoot, not even sure if racism is the right word. It's religious prejudice I guess. I heard a quote from a woman in Murphysburo (SP) Tennessee yesterday. They're building a Mosque there as well to replace their over crowded Mosque. She was crying "Islam is not a religion!" Really? How do you get to make that call?

What do those folks in Pakistan think when they hear that? On the one hand we have the State Department trying to help as best they can with the devastating flooding there. "We are your friends and allies. Help us with extremists and terrorists". On the other hand we have this very real anti-Islam sentiment in this country. In the same report I heard a man saying (I'm paraphrasing) "We're Christian and this is a religion that's against Christians". We're going out of our way to send the message that this *is* about religion.

OBL tells them "they hate us because of our religion". Then we try as hard as we can to prove him right. Not a good plan.

[piece-itpete]

I wonder who's been repeatedly attacking us? Why would people think that?

Perception, check.

Pete

[whell]

Originally Posted by finnbow

The Imam's quote is certainly far more accurate than Dubya's at the time. Per Dubya, 9/11 happened because "they hate our freedom." What a disingenuous crock of sh_t. Actually, bin Laden's main beef wasn't Israel, it was the royal family of Saudi Arabia and their relationship with the West. Not defending OBL's actions, of course, just adding a bit of perspective (the first part of fighting an enemy is understanding him.)

Bin Laden is one F'd up dude. He's got a lot of "main beefs", and his issues with the Saudis is just one of many. I don't think you get back at the Saudi Royals by knocking down the twin towers.

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by whell

Bin Laden is one F'd up dude. He's got a lot of "main beefs", and his issues with the Saudis is just one of many. I don't think you get back at the Saudi Royals by knocking down the twin towers.

True enough about OBL's derangement. From what I've read, his biggest beefs were interrelated. Coming off the victory of the Mujahadeen in Afghanistan, he felt himself to be a conquering folk hero and wanted to continue in that vein to throw Saddam out of Kuwait in defense of the Islamic holy lands in Saudi Arabia. When the Royal Family overrode these grandiose plans, he was double outraged that they deferred to the infidel, America, to do their fighting for them in defense of Muslim lands.

This deference to the infidel tied into his outrage about the despots being propped up throughout the Mideast by the west (e.g., Egypt and the Gulf States) thereby precluding more Islamic forms of government from developing. I think in his deranged head, all this sh_t ties together seamlessly. Derangement has no bounds.

[Fast_Eddie]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

I wonder who's been repeatedly attacking us? Why would people think that?

Perception, check.

Pete

Misguided individuals. Not the entire Muslim world. If every Muslim on Earth decided to attack us we'd be in tough shape.

If you use that yard stick, turn it around for a second. If you in Afghanistan saying "who attacked us?" you would have to say "the Christians and the Jews". It makes it out to be something it's not. We invaded Afghanistan because that's where the threat to our security was. It had nothing to do with us being Christians and them being Muslim. But sure enough, we're pretty much Christians and Jews.

If I ask "who's responsible for gun deaths" what would you say? Angry people who don't manage their anger the right way? Something like that- something that puts the blame on the individual? What you're doing is saying "people with guns." People with guns are responsible for 100% of guy deaths. No one ever killed someone with a gun who didn't have a gun. So are people with guns the enemy? Or are murders the enemy?

Same thing. Are Muslims the enemy, or are terrorists the enemy?

[piece-itpete]

I'm aware of that, however it's tough to blame folks for thinking muslims are the enemy.

Pete

[Fast_Eddie]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

I'm aware of that, however it's tough to blame folks for thinking muslims are the enemy.

Pete

I'm not blaming anyone. I'm just saying those people are wrong. And if we perpetuate the message that this is about religion it will make the situation far worse. We are becoming what they accuse us of being.

[hillbilly]

Originally Posted by Fast_Eddie

I'm not blaming anyone. I'm just saying those people are wrong. And if we perpetuate the message that this is about religion it will make the situation far worse. We are becoming what they accuse us of being.

I think you should visit this area and spend some time here while your at it, not just a short stay. I think you'd see the quality of life as something you'd never want to change if you lived here your self. I've been many places, but always eagar to get back home. Theres nothing like people that wave at strangers, or talk to you at any store you go to ... unless it's one of those muslim stores, .. they are not willing to answer you when you walk into one of their stores and say '' howdy, you doin' alright today ... sure been hot today hasn't it ''. All they will do is look at you like your fucking dumb count and hand you your change. That is not how us locals act or live life. And and back to the mosque. I'm one of the locals that don't trust 'em. We don't tust or trade with anyone to good to speak when spoken to.

They open two stores in our county once. The phones started ringing all over the county as friends and neighbors passed the word on to everyone they knew for three towns asking not to trade with them. It worked. Wasn't very long until they closed the stores and moved on. There is no law saying people must buy from them.

You know what though? If they had just had the decency to look up and say, '' yes, I'm doing fine today thanks for asking .. and how are you today?.. and yes, it sure does look hot/cold out there today .. '',, folks might have just alittle bit more respect towards them. But it's hard when they are in their own click ( with the silent attitude of we don't give a shit about you or how your doing today .. we just want your money so hand it over and go ), and it's sposed to be ok for them to build their own communities. But it it's only wrong if American people wish to preserve a community and culture we have always lived. People only want to scream racism if your white and even sometimes black ( even if it IS NOT ), sad truth and people know it. They may not be willing to admit it's the cold hard truth, but oh they do know it.

[Fast_Eddie]

I used to live in Tennessee.