UN Report: US Owes Black People Reparations for a History of "Racial Terrorism"

[donquixote99]

Originally Posted by Grumpy

Are the tribes in Africa going to pay as well. They sold many of these slaves to the traders. Easy for the UN to say what "we" should do, specially if they are not the ones paying.

Ah, they're to blame too! As I posted elsewhere, shouldn't we blame the slaves?

And as I posted here already:

Reparations is a bad word. Pisses people off. People think the moral blame for slavery, and lynchings, is landing on them, and they haven't enslaved or lynched anyone.

But people are still dying, and it's still because of history that won't die. If you don't want the blame, then fine, not many ever have. You're in the good majority.

But the potential for hate is inside each of us. It's just human. And if you think now that the people who say 'black lives matter' are wrong, you are part of the problem.

It will never end, until we decide to make an end. And that means going ahead and taking some of the blame, whoever you are, and whether you think you deserve it or not.

[merrylander]

As I see it there is sufficient blame to go around but can we simply say I am sorry and then get on with fixing the whole fucking mess? Finger pointing may make some folks feel good but it is about as much use as a milk bucket with a bull.

[Boreas]

White people are always trying to restrict the conversation to slavery. That way they can let themselves off the hook and whine about being blamed for the sins of their great or great great grandparents. But it isn't just about slavery and it didn't end with the Emancipation Proclamation. Slavery's legacy of persecution, intolerance and exclusion from the benefits of our society are still a factor in the daily lives of African-Americans. The recent gutting of the Voting Rights Act, the gradual neutering of the Affirmative Action programs through things like the Bakke Decision, disparities in the quality of educational opportunities and the continuation of slavery through prison labor and the mass incarceration of black Americans are but a few examples.

[MrPots]

Originally Posted by Boreas

White people are always trying to restrict the conversation to slavery. That way they can let themselves off the hook and whine about being blamed for the sins of their great or great great grandparents. But it isn't just about slavery and it didn't end with the Emancipation Proclamation. Slavery's legacy of persecution, intolerance and exclusion from the benefits of our society are still a factor in the daily lives of African-Americans. The recent gutting of the Voting Rights Act, the gradual neutering of the Affirmative Action programs, disparities in the quality of educational opportunities and the continuation of slavery through prison labor and the mass incarceration of black Americans are but a few examples.

Indeed, and as long as we allow these inequities to continue, we are all guilty. This, just another part of the failed legacy we've left our children.

[JCricket]

Originally Posted by Boreas

White people are always trying to restrict the conversation to slavery. That way they can let themselves off the hook and whine about being blamed for the sins of their great or great great grandparents. But it isn't just about slavery and it didn't end with the Emancipation Proclamation. Slavery's legacy of persecution, intolerance and exclusion from the benefits of our society are still a factor in the daily lives of African-Americans. The recent gutting of the Voting Rights Act, the gradual neutering of the Affirmative Action programs through things like the Bakke Decision, disparities in the quality of educational opportunities and the continuation of slavery through prison labor and the mass incarceration of black Americans are but a few examples.

I am sorry, but this makes little sense to me.

"...it isn't just about slavery."

But it is because

"Slavery's legacy of persecution,......."

I misunderstand or I disagree.

Sure, minorities do not live at the same level(prosperity, etc) of the white folks. No argument there. However, your suggestion of why I find hard to agree with. Maybe it is the legacy of slavery, but then slavery was the cause. Although that was where the problem started, it certainly is not the only cause of the problems today.

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by JCricket

I am sorry, but this makes little sense to me.

"...it isn't just about slavery."

But it is because

"Slavery's legacy of persecution,......."

I misunderstand or I disagree.

Sure, minorities do not live at the same level(prosperity, etc) of the white folks. No argument there. However, your suggestion of why I find hard to agree with. Maybe it is the legacy of slavery, but then slavery was the cause. Although that was where the problem started, it certainly is not the only cause of the problems today.

Then present a counter argument that explains our treatment of blacks - not "minorities" - in terms other than as the legacy of our having enslaved their ancestors.

For instance, show me examples of other countries where blacks were never enslaved but are treated similarly to the way we treat them.

[JCricket]

Originally Posted by Boreas

Then present a counter argument that explains our treatment of blacks - not "minorities" - in terms other than as the legacy of our having enslaved their ancestors.

For instance, show me examples of other countries where blacks were never enslaved but are treated similarly to the way we treat them.

The bolded part is my issue. I am not certain the blanket statement of "our treatment of blacks" is one I agree with. Some people treat blacks racially. Some blacks still foster hate too. Some folks do not. The problem probably started in slavery. I think it is far more complex than that now. Poverty traps, hate from some of the people on both sides, ignorance from folks on both sides, and so on.

BTW - I use the term minorities simply because saying "blacks" feels like I am being racist. I think referring to any group of people and labeling it with their skin color is racist, at least breeds racism. This is quite possibly one of the roots of the problem.

I can't say I feel much better about using the term minority either though.

[donquixote99]

Originally Posted by JCricket

The bolded part is my issue. I am not certain the blanket statement of "our treatment of blacks" is one I agree with. Some people treat blacks racially. Some blacks still foster hate too. Some folks do not. The problem probably started in slavery. I think it is far more complex than that now. Poverty traps, hate from some of the people on both sides, ignorance from folks on both sides, and so on.

BTW - I use the term minorities simply because saying "blacks" feels like I am being racist. I think referring to any group of people and labeling it with their skin color is racist, at least breeds racism. This is quite possibly one of the roots of the problem.

I can't say I feel much better about using the term minority either though.

The meme that blacks are niggers has been passed down, from generation to generation. You learned it in your childhood, perhaps first in 'nigger jokes.' It passes from older kids to younger kids, even if parents would not explicitly teach such a thing, or even teach against it.

Now you grew up to be a decent person, and you'd never use the word, probably not even as I just have, to talk about how things work. Still, the identity is back there, in your mind. If you explicitly think 'What are blacks?' that word is one of the answers.

And sometimes when events or circumstances put blacks and whites in conflict, perhaps in the workplace, perhaps in the school, perhaps at a demonstration, certainly when policing the streets, and in the courts, and in the jails--that word, and all it implies, are ready and waiting. Maybe you keep it closed up. Others let it sneak about in their minds, and some glory in it.

That's the legacy we're dealing with.

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

The meme that blacks are niggers has been passed down, from generation to generation. You learned it in your childhood, perhaps first in 'nigger jokes.' It passes from older kids to younger kids, even if parents would not explicitly teach such a thing, or even teach against it.

Now you grew up to be a decent person, and you'd never use the word, probably not even as I just have, to talk about how things work. Still, the identity is back there, in your mind. If you explicitly think 'What are blacks?' that word is one of the answers.

And sometimes when events or circumstances put blacks and whites in conflict, perhaps in the workplace, perhaps in the school, perhaps at a demonstration, certainly when policing the streets, and in the courts, and in the jails--that word, and all it implies, are ready and waiting. Maybe you keep it closed up. Others let it sneak about in their minds, and some glory in it.

That's the legacy we're dealing with.

A lot comes from your personal frame of reference. I grew up in the Jim Crow era in a former slave state and, like many people who grew up in the upper middle class, my experience with black people was limited to interactions with the family maid. I got lucky.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Talford_Scott

My mother died when I was 11 and Liz became the closest thing to a mother I had in my life. She was a remarkable, generous and talented woman who loved my sister and me unconditionally.

Having Liz in my life armored me against the casual racism of my class and race. She taught me the lie of it just by being in my life.

[JCricket]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

The meme that blacks are niggers has been passed down, from generation to generation. You learned it in your childhood, perhaps first in 'nigger jokes.' It passes from older kids to younger kids, even if parents would not explicitly teach such a thing, or even teach against it.

Now you grew up to be a decent person, and you'd never use the word, probably not even as I just have, to talk about how things work. Still, the identity is back there, in your mind. If you explicitly think 'What are blacks?' that word is one of the answers.

And sometimes when events or circumstances put blacks and whites in conflict, perhaps in the workplace, perhaps in the school, perhaps at a demonstration, certainly when policing the streets, and in the courts, and in the jails--that word, and all it implies, are ready and waiting. Maybe you keep it closed up. Others let it sneak about in their minds, and some glory in it.

That's the legacy we're dealing with.

Hey Don,
I think I can honestly say that the n word is not in my mind when I deal with, hear about, or read about the black folks. Seriously, it is not. I would bet my kids never think it, might not even know the word. Yes I heard the jokes, some, when I was a kid.

I do get myself into trouble with the word boy. My northern midwest farm boy culture sneaks in. "How are you boys doing? I never learned it as a derogatory term, in fact as a term of endearment. Thus the slip.

Even so, you do make it clear, that the "legacy" is still likely alive. Hopefully it will be dead by the end of my children's generation.