Trumps is in!

[merrylander]

Originally Posted by barbara

Only if one believes that one is born when one is conceived.

At conception it is a zygote and eventually becomes a fetus but it is unable to survive out side the womb without considerable intervention until the seventh month, Prior to that point it might well be termed parasite. This from a purely medical standpoint.

If a woman is raped to force her to carry to term simple rapes her again. Regardless since I am incapable of carrying then to be perfectly frank it is none of may damn business and should only be decided between a woman and her doctor - preferably also a woman.

[nailer]

Originally Posted by barbara

Only if one believes that one is born when one is conceived.

No belief required. I know birth and conception are not the same thing. Although conception and birth are part of the same thing - life.

[nailer]

Originally Posted by sheltiedave

Quite easy. If you are for a woman's right for choice, you can also be for a society's right to establish capital punishment. These are not exclusionary if they are not faith based.

Try again. You skipped over a key word.

[sheltiedave]

Enlighten me.

[Oerets]

I still feel as a man I don't have a dog in this fight! Never will face the unwanted or troubled pregnancy with my body..


Barney

[nailer]

Originally Posted by sheltiedave

Enlighten me.

Self enlightenment is more fulfilling. Try a reread.

[sheltiedave]

Well Nailer, I have a problem with "right to life," because for most conservative religious people, that is a code phrase. It means one thing for people of means, and it means something else for poor people, as I have observed.

For me, "right to life" means every baby has a basic access to medical healthcare, from conception through adult life. It also carries a right to comprehensive affordable education, equal access to good jobs, access to adequate affordable housing, nutrition, mental health, and the sundry items that make up a life.

What most people really mean when the say "right to life" is "right to be born". Born into an unequal world of finite resources with infinite demand, born to a life mainly predetermined by who your parents are, how wealthy they are, and geographically where you are born.

I was enlightened when I went on a parish protest to an abortion clinic for a couple months, and then hooked up with a Birthright volunteer group that helped at an unwed mothers' house. Very rarely did the two groups cross pollinate volunteer efforts, and very rarely did the protesters donate money to directly help newborns care.

To me, enlightenment is getting down in the trenches, trying to make sure that every baby is a loved baby, and there is funding and programs to help poor mothers achieve dreams for their babies. This involves things like being politically active to support social programs, donations to shelters, speaking out for those who are born BEFORE you start out on the unborn. You can't have it both ways.

Saying you are enlightened and care about the unborn is hypocritical when you act against infants' best welfare once they are born.

[Dondilion]

Originally Posted by Oerets

I still feel as a man I don't have a dog in this fight! Never will face the unwanted or troubled pregnancy with my body..


Barney

Your not having a dog in the fight does not free you.

[nailer]

Originally Posted by sheltiedave

Well Nailer, I have a problem with "right to life," because for most conservative religious people, that is a code phrase. It means one thing for people of means, and it means something else for poor people, as I have observed.

For me, "right to life" means every baby has a basic access to medical healthcare, from conception through adult life. It also carries a right to comprehensive affordable education, equal access to good jobs, access to adequate affordable housing, nutrition, mental health, and the sundry items that make up a life.

What most people really mean when the say "right to life" is "right to be born". Born into an unequal world of finite resources with infinite demand, born to a life mainly predetermined by who your parents are, how wealthy they are, and geographically where you are born.

I was enlightened when I went on a parish protest to an abortion clinic for a couple months, and then hooked up with a Birthright volunteer group that helped at an unwed mothers' house. Very rarely did the two groups cross pollinate volunteer efforts, and very rarely did the protesters donate money to directly help newborns care.

To me, enlightenment is getting down in the trenches, trying to make sure that every baby is a loved baby, and there is funding and programs to help poor mothers achieve dreams for their babies. This involves things like being politically active to support social programs, donations to shelters, speaking out for those who are born BEFORE you start out on the unborn. You can't have it both ways.

Saying you are enlightened and care about the unborn is hypocritical when you act against infants' best welfare once they are born.

Nice to know you're enlightened.

From some of what you've written one might get the idea that abortion should be means tested so that only people who can't afford to raise children in a financially proper manner are eligible.

[Pio1980]

Originally Posted by sheltiedave

Well Nailer, I have a problem with "right to life," because for most conservative religious people, that is a code phrase. It means one thing for people of means, and it means something else for poor people, as I have observed.

For me, "right to life" means every baby has a basic access to medical healthcare, from conception through adult life. It also carries a right to comprehensive affordable education, equal access to good jobs, access to adequate affordable housing, nutrition, mental health, and the sundry items that make up a life.

What most people really mean when the say "right to life" is "right to be born". Born into an unequal world of finite resources with infinite demand, born to a life mainly predetermined by who your parents are, how wealthy they are, and geographically where you are born.

I was enlightened when I went on a parish protest to an abortion clinic for a couple months, and then hooked up with a Birthright volunteer group that helped at an unwed mothers' house. Very rarely did the two groups cross pollinate volunteer efforts, and very rarely did the protesters donate money to directly help newborns care.

To me, enlightenment is getting down in the trenches, trying to make sure that every baby is a loved baby, and there is funding and programs to help poor mothers achieve dreams for their babies. This involves things like being politically active to support social programs, donations to shelters, speaking out for those who are born BEFORE you start out on the unborn. You can't have it both ways.

Saying you are enlightened and care about the unborn is hypocritical when you act against infants' best welfare once they are born.

Short form:
So-called "Right to life" types believe the right to life begins at conception and ends at birth.
Dave's long form is far more eloquent and to the point.

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