Breaking News: Snipers Open Fire on Police In Dallas

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

If you imagine more people and more weapons making an effective defense, you are forgetting the government can and will escalate enough to overwhelm you, whatever it takes. Recall the case of MOVE in Philadelphia, whose compound was bombed by attacking police in 1985.

wikipedia

Remember is well as I lived in the Philadelphia media market at the time.

[ZeroJunk]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

That is an example of self-sacrificial offensive action. He would not have been effective in 'defending himself and his family' if that had been his goal. He would not have been able to keep the police from going his house and killing or arresting the occupants.

A small squad trained in urban tactics, with small arms and grenades, would make short work of a rifleman attempting to defend a house or apartment from a raid. Casualties on the part of a squad doing such work would be unusual. Being a deer hunter does not make one combat-experienced. Deer don't shoot back.
And even being combat-experienced doesn't fix being surprised and outnumbered.

Well, it's all hypothetical. But, one would assume at some point that the people got word of what was going to happen to them.

So, self sacrificial is exactly how it would be described. But, if they had all been armed in this hypothetical and knew what was going to happen at the end of the ride they could have changed things somewhat at least.

How many soldiers do you think Hitler would have sacrificed ?

Anybody who tells me a million men with deer rifles can't reek havoc are nuts. Even if they lose 5 to 1 or whatever.

In the end they have to go in the house and get them facing a gun. Not just herd them up like sheep.

[ZeroJunk]

Originally Posted by Boreas

Then you're a bigger fool than I thought you were - and that's saying a lot.

Brilliant post. Just trying to take in the depth of it.

[ZeroJunk]

Originally Posted by Boreas

Remember is well as I lived in the Philadelphia media market at the time.

So, you think that is instructive as to going in to every house of an entire population ?

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by ZeroJunk

So, you think that is instructive as to going in to every house of an entire population ?

I don't think any such thing. The MOVE siege involved a small number of Philadelphia police officers and one unarmored helicopter, not a national army.

[donquixote99]

Originally Posted by ZeroJunk

Well, it's all hypothetical. But, one would assume at some point that the people got word of what was going to happen to them.

So, self sacrificial is exactly how it would be described. But, if they had all been armed in this hypothetical and knew what was going to happen at the end of the ride they could have changed things somewhat at least.

How many soldiers do you think Hitler would have sacrificed ?

Anybody who tells me a million men with deer rifles can't reek havoc are nuts. Even if they lose 5 to 1 or whatever.

In the end they have to go in the house and get them facing a gun. Not just herd them up like sheep.

Well, maybe the case of the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising will make a dent. The Ghetto was being liquidated at that point, and those Jews knew exactly what was in store for them. They got all the guns they could, and fought like hell. They killed at most 300 Germans. About 13,000 Ghetto residents died in the fighting. Worth doing at that point, I agree. But they didn't stop the program, they didn't protect anyone. They lost.

It really is a gross insult to the victims of German genocide to call the people 'sheep.' Most people, even if you give them guns, aren't fighters. Women, children, men mostly untrained and mostly over 30? Up against military units, they are just so many targets. And they are told they are just being resettled, with various deceptions supporting that story. What do you do, even if you fear the worst, try to make a hopeless fight and get the women and kids all killed right now? A population of families is a population with a bunch of built-in hostages. You go along, and hope.

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

It really is a gross insult to the victims of German genocide to call the people 'sheep.'

All part of the myth. He's only repeating what he heard from the 2nd Amendment fanatics.

[bobabode]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

Well, maybe the case of the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising will make a dent. The Ghetto was being liquidated at that point, and those Jews knew exactly what was in store for them. They got all the guns they could, and fought like hell. They killed at most 300 Germans. About 13,000 Ghetto residents died in the fighting. Worth doing at that point, I agree. But they didn't stop the program, they didn't protect anyone. They lost.

It really is a gross insult to the victims of German genocide to call the people 'sheep.' Most people, even if you give them guns, aren't fighters. Women, children, men mostly untrained and mostly over 30? Up against military units, they are just so many targets. And they are told they are just being resettled, with various deceptions supporting that story. What do you do, even if you fear the worst, try to make a hopeless fight and get the women and kids all killed right now? A population of families is a population with a bunch of built-in hostages. You go along, and hope.

Thank you for taking the time to calmly and rationally explain this.

[whell]

Originally Posted by JJIII

Would that hold true for all the "Drumph" and other names being used?

Absolutely not.

[ZeroJunk]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

Well, maybe the case of the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising will make a dent. The Ghetto was being liquidated at that point, and those Jews knew exactly what was in store for them. They got all the guns they could, and fought like hell. They killed at most 300 Germans. About 13,000 Ghetto residents died in the fighting. Worth doing at that point, I agree. But they didn't stop the program, they didn't protect anyone. They lost.

It really is a gross insult to the victims of German genocide to call the people 'sheep.' Most people, even if you give them guns, aren't fighters. Women, children, men mostly untrained and mostly over 30? Up against military units, they are just so many targets. And they are told they are just being resettled, with various deceptions supporting that story. What do you do, even if you fear the worst, try to make a hopeless fight and get the women and kids all killed right now? A population of families is a population with a bunch of built-in hostages. You go along, and hope.

I didn't call them sheep just herded like them. If you have better description of being hauled off to labor camps, experimentation, or just death, like an animal then I am all for it.

I would bet that many of these people would have liked to have had the option of doing whatever they could with a rifle, pistol, or whatever.

Better than having 11 million dead and having somebody decades later say they were just as well off unarmed. Calmly and rationally of course.