Social Security

[noonereal]

Originally Posted by Tom Joad

I disagree.

Once there is a means test it becomes like a welfare program, such as Medicaid, and the beneficiaries start getting treated like shit.

For example, I have Medicare (non means tested). I have observed the way I am treated when I need medical care vs. the way someone on medicaid (means tested) is treated and I want no part of any means testing. Means testing is a good name for it because when you are on a program that is means tested people sure as Hell treat you mean.

you are correct about treatment, perceptions and potential cuts as a result but that is not a good reason to not support a means test. It means that the problem of perception and treatment needs to be addressed.

[noonereal]

Originally Posted by Boreas

Means testing SS would make the Right wet their pants. It would turn an earned benefit into an "entitlement program". Just like they've always claimed but we'd still have to pay into it.

you don't think the young and right don't consider SS an entitlement now?

You really think they differentiate? You think the rich think it anything but redistribution their wealth to the middle?

We have this perception now.

Listen, I know there is no way we will ever get a means test or an end to the cap but it is the right thing to do. What is the name of the program? Social Security. The rich have security brought to them through birth and chance.

[noonereal]

and another thing... what good is raising the retirement age when, as in my opening post, older people simply will not be allowed to keep their job longer. Will not be hired when out of work. WTF kind of security is that?

[noonereal]

Originally Posted by MrPots

I tend to agree with you on this. There comes a point when you are rich enough that your contribution to the welfare of others is a social obligation one should gracefully accept.

Obviously since the rich use our toils and our tax monies to acquire their wealth.

Think about it, we have to train ourselves, at considerable cost, to make profits for them then work for them at a modest pay while they make millions. At the same time we pay for the roads the ports the bridges that they use to profit.

Anyone agaonst a means test or the removal of the cap is, well..... you know where I am going with this.

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by noonereal

you don't think the young and right don't consider SS an entitlement now?

You really think they differentiate? You think the rich think it anything but redistribution their wealth to the middle?

We have this perception now.

Listen, I know there is no way we will ever get a means test or an end to the cap but it is the right thing to do. What is the name of the program? Social Security. The rich have security brought to them through birth and chance.

It's the wrong thing to do. How would you lie having a means test applied to you where the government said that your income from other sources was too high so too bad for you! You're going to get reduced benefits or no benefits at all? Not only is this morally wrong but it's unnecessary. The health of SS can be maintained without imposing a means test.

[MrPots]

Originally Posted by nailer

If they were serious it would have been characterized as a responsibility.

Rich people no longer have to be responsible...for anything. For some odd reason, here in the US rich people are worshipped and allowed to do anything they please....even murder.

Therefore we must pander to their sense of obligation. We must shame them into doing right.

[MrPots]

Originally Posted by noonereal

Obviously since the rich use our toils and our tax monies to acquire their wealth.

Think about it, we have to train ourselves, at considerable cost, to make profits for them then work for them at a modest pay while they make millions. At the same time we pay for the roads the ports the bridges that they use to profit.

Anyone agaonst a means test or the removal of the cap is, well..... you know where I am going with this.

Indeed. Look at the 4.4 billion dollar destroyer. And look at who got rich off that taxpayer paid boondoggle.

[MrPots]

Originally Posted by Boreas

It's the wrong thing to do. How would you lie having a means test applied to you where the government said that your income from other sources was too high so too bad for you! You're going to get reduced benefits or no benefits at all? Not only is this morally wrong but it's unnecessary. The health of SS can be maintained without imposing a means test.

Odd how the prohibition against doing the wrong thing only applied to average lower class people and not to the wealthy or business.

Two sets of standards...one for the poor, one for the wealthy. The poor must be moral and ethical. The rich and business...well they must be excused from those silly obligations....including taxes.

Sorry friend, fuck that.

[Dondilion]

Originally Posted by MrPots

Indeed. Look at the 4.4 billion dollar destroyer. And look at who got rich off that taxpayer paid boondoggle.

Explains why so many politicians and think tanks promote an interventionist US.

[nailer]

Originally Posted by Dondilion

Explains why so many politicians and think tanks promote an interventionist US.

Empire doesn't come cheap.