Hillary For President

[whell]

Originally Posted by Tom Joad

Now, lets take a look at how Bernie did the same year.

In 2000 Gore won Vermont by 10 points.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United..._Vermont,_2000

But Bernie won his congressional re-election by 50 points.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United..._Vermont,_2000

Now, try and tell me that Hillary is more electable.

The ONLY place were Sanders could win an election is likely Vermont....or maybe Minnesota.

[whell]

Originally Posted by Boreas

When you hear virtually the same thing from the Republicans regarding Trump, it becomes perfectly clear that the will of the electorate isn't even on the radar of either party.

Which likely results in something like this:

http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/ken...itical-parties

The latest Gallup Poll finds that loyalty to the Democrats and Republicans is at or near historic lows. In 2015, for the fifth straight year, "at least four in 10 U.S. adults identified as political independents," a Gallup spokesman said. Forty-two percent said they were independent last year; 43 percent listed themselves that way in 2014, reflecting little change.

Twenty-nine percent said they were Democrats and 26 percent said they were Republicans.

The Democrats' share was the lowest for that party in Gallup's 65 years of asking about party identification. The previous Democratic low was 30 percent in 2014.

The Republicans also have cause for concern. The 26 percent who identified with the GOP was just 1 percentage point higher than the historical Gallup low of 25 percent self-identified Republicans in 2013.

[Rajoo]

I am willing to bet that if Trump and Sanders collaborated and formed an independent party and ran on that ticket, they will beat any and every establishment candidate. Of course powers to be will never let that happen, every state will rig their election rules.

Not that I am a Trump fan by any means or will ever vote for him, just a hypothetical scenario where the so called 'will of the people' will be obliterated by both major parties.

[Tom Joad]

Originally Posted by bobabode

So, you're backing T'Rump if Bernie doesn't get the nod?

I'm not going to vote Republican.

But if Bernie doesn't get the nomination and decides to run as an independent I am 100% sure I will vote for him. On the other hand if Bernie doesn't get it and then endorses Hillary I will have a tough decision to make. Since Alabama has a straight ticket option I can vote straight Democrat and vote for Hillary without having to fill in an oval next to her name. That would make it more palatable, so I might go that route.

Now, if ET comes to earth and he has the Death Star up there in orbit ready to zap us and he says "Either pick one of the Republicans to be President or I vaporize all your asses" then I would go with Trump. But before I did that I'd ask him if there was a setting on that Death Star thing to where it would only zap right wingers and if so, could we please have that option instead?

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by whell

John - brace yourself.

Are you ready? Here it comes....

I wholeheartedly AGREE with you on something. The electorate matters only once every couple of years when the election cycle requires these parasites to come out of their shells and put on a show to get votes. The two party system has become little more than a tenure commission for establishment politicians.

Its a great gig for them really. Some of them come from money, but most certainly find a way to exit office with far more in the bank than they started with. When they leave, they can parachute into a lobbying gig or corporate board membership that pays them well for the access to the D.C. swamp that they provide.

But the will of the electorate and the betterment of the country? Nope, not a factor in their day to day decision-making.

We do agree occasionally.

Harold Ford, Jr. is a pretty good example of the way the system works these days. Basically, Ford "inherited" his House seat from his father when the elder opted not to run in 2006. There he voted for the Iraq War, for a Constitutional amendment defining marriage as being between one man and one woman, for drilling in Anwar, was in favor of intervening in the Terry Schiavo and was critical of Senate opposition to the appointment of Samuel Alito.

Then, after 6 terms, he decided to run for Bill Frist's Senate seat only to lose to Bob Freakin' Corker. But the Corporatist Democrats liked the cut of his jib so much that they appointed him as chairman of the "centrist" Democratic Leadership Council. When the Council was dissolved, Ford got a gig at Merrill Lynch as a parting gift.

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by whell

Which likely results in something like this:

http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/ken...itical-parties

The latest Gallup Poll finds that loyalty to the Democrats and Republicans is at or near historic lows. In 2015, for the fifth straight year, "at least four in 10 U.S. adults identified as political independents," a Gallup spokesman said. Forty-two percent said they were independent last year; 43 percent listed themselves that way in 2014, reflecting little change.

Twenty-nine percent said they were Democrats and 26 percent said they were Republicans.

The Democrats' share was the lowest for that party in Gallup's 65 years of asking about party identification. The previous Democratic low was 30 percent in 2014.

The Republicans also have cause for concern. The 26 percent who identified with the GOP was just 1 percentage point higher than the historical Gallup low of 25 percent self-identified Republicans in 2013.

The problem isn't the parties. It's the system. The fact remains that, no matter how much a candidate rails against the status quo, they have essentially no chance of winning election without the support of the moneyed elite. And they're all about the status quo.

[whell]

Originally Posted by Boreas

The problem isn't the parties. It's the system. The fact remains that, no matter how much a candidate rails against the status quo, they have essentially no chance of winning election without the support of the moneyed elite. And they're all about the status quo.

The parties are part of the problem. They've evolved to support the system rather than advance an agenda.

However, the reason I posted the Gallup polling is to demonstrate the level of skepticism folks have about their gov't registers in places like reduction / lack of interest in party affiliation. The rise of Sanders and Trump is - to me - nothing more than a product of the distrust that folks have in so called "establishment" candidates, and correlates with the reduction in party affiliation.

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by whell

The parties are part of the problem. They've evolved to support the system rather than advance an agenda.

However, the reason I posted the Gallup polling is to demonstrate the level of skepticism folks have about their gov't registers in places like reduction / lack of interest in party affiliation. The rise of Sanders and Trump is - to me - nothing more than a product of the distrust that folks have in so called "establishment" candidates, and correlates with the reduction in party affiliation.

Interestingly, Sanders is the only person campaigning on that sort of issue. Trump just spews hate on the powerless and disenfranchised.

[Mr. Lin]

Originally Posted by whell

The rise of Sanders and Trump is - to me - nothing more than a product of the distrust that folks have in so called "establishment" candidates, and correlates with the reduction in party affiliation.

Well that's part of it, especially on the Trump side. But I am absolutely convinced that our economy needs to be dramatically restructured, and that's why I'm wild about Sanders. I believe that practically all of the major problems facing our country right now are rooted in our rather shocking degree of income/wealth inequality and our "rigged" system that favors the rich, and that this is the most crucial issue to address ASAP.

I've been an independent liberal my whole life; Bernie just happens to have exactly the right message about where the U.S. needs to go from here.

Trump is a crude conman who's tapped into our substantial base of angry, fundamentally ignorant, and often racist voters (who just happen to be Republicans more often than not...).

And as for Hilary - we can do SO much better than her among Democrats. I realize this is an understatement.

[bobabode]

Iowa Democratic Presidential Caucus Quinnipiac Clinton 44, Sanders 49, O'Malley 4 Sanders +5
Iowa Democratic Presidential Caucus PPP (D) Clinton 46, Sanders 40, O'Malley 8 Clinton +6

Latest polls. http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/

May the best woman win.