South Carolina High School Student Dragged From Class

[donquixote99]

Originally Posted by Ike Bana

As I said before, the wife spent over 15 years in west side Chicago school classrooms. The teachers who had honed their classroom management skills typically didn't have to send a kid down to the principal's office more than once or twice a week. Why? Because the kids were scared shitless of the classroom teacher. Why? Because some of the teachers had the authorization to use corporal punishment from the parents...and every kid in the school knew it. Some used it, some didn't. But what the kids were most afraid of was looking like the fool in front of their classmates. The blonde could make a disruptive kid look the fool like nobody else. She was like a USMC drill instructor...using the rest of the platoon to enforce the guidelines, for instance...

Kid won't stop disrupting class...
Teacher, "Class...what do we call a student who wants to mess up class for everybody else?"
Class responds, loudly and in unison, "THEY'RE GARBAGE!!!!"
Teacher, "Class, where does garbage go?"
Class, even more loudly, "IN THE GARBAGE CAN!!!!!"

Kid stands in timeout (didn't call it timeout then though) in the garbage can in the corner by the door for the next 15 minutes, more often than not in tears. And then the kid gets razzed by the other kids for being "garbage" for the next 15 days or so. The latter being the most powerful part of the intervention. Nobody fucked with MS. "B".

Mean? You betcha, Margie. Effective? Absolutely. As a seasoned teacher who was retiring that year told the blonde during her first week as a green 20 year old teacher on the west side of Chicago, "Go after them starting the first day of the school year and do it ruthlessly because sweetie, it doesn't work trying to get tough a month down the road, but you can always ease up once they're in line."

Years after she left teaching, former students, some of whom were running their own classrooms by then, were still in contact with her. Most thanked her more than once for not putting up with a nanosecond of shit from any kids in her class who weren't there to learn.

And the half-dozen principals she worked for loved her, because it was so rare for her to dump a disruptive kid on them.

What I don't like is the evident pride and satisfaction in telling the 'war stories,' the charge folks get about telling of the success of mean tactics, and the continuing anger both at 'bad kids' and at anyone who dares to question cruel or corporal punishment. There should be a way to run schools that doesn't require cultivating a streak of authoritarian brutality.

"Johnny will be fine once we break his spirit." Can't source it, but it's a real quote.

[Ike Bana]

Originally Posted by Boreas

By the way, the young girl had just lost her mother and is in foster care. Under the circumstances, it's not hard to imagine that she.... um.... wasn't quite herself.

I find it almost impossible to believe that her teacher and the principal were unaware of this so their actions seem to have been very callous. Whether Fields knew is perhaps less likely.

Hey class...it's me...little miss fussybritches. My mom's dead and now I'm in foster care...so I'm just gonna fuck up the day for you and show you how the school can't tell you what to do. My ass, john.

The kids in my wife's school lived in one of the most violent and dangerous neighborhoods on the west side of Chicago. Half lived in squalor. She did a home visit one day (which she wasn't supposed to be doing) in a 4 story walk up. Some of the tenants who were more organized had run strings down to the front door with their name on a tag on the string, running all the way up to a bell by their front door 3 or 4 stories up. That was their doorbell. Assholes would rip the tags off so you mostly had to guess which string to pull. Sometimes the heat was up, sometimes it wasn't.

She goes up to the apartment to talk with the mom about her son who's having trouble keeping himself under control. But before they could discuss that, the mom wanted to show her something. She was able to scrounge up 5 steel milk crates. Each one had a piece of masking tape with each kid's name scribbled on it. They kept all their clothes and other important stuff in their own crate. She was so fucking proud that she had been able to do this for her kids. No more arguments or fighting in the morning when they all had to get off to school. Someplace to keep stuff that used to be strewn all over the house. The blonde decided to let the problem go. Thanked the mom for talking with her, and left in tears.

Everybody, every kid in that school had lost somebody. Only half of them had dads living in the home, and many of those kids dad's had been killed, or an uncle killed, or a brother killed, or some other family member in the crossfire. She used to say...most of these kids don't have a fucking chance. But every kid who came to school and sat in her class had to behave themselves. Nobody gets to be "not quite themselves."

[catswiththum]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

What I don't like is the evident pride and satisfaction in telling the 'war stories,' the charge folks get about telling of the success of mean tactics, and the continuing anger both at 'bad kids' and at anyone who dares to question cruel or corporal punishment. There should be a way to run schools that doesn't require cultivating a streak of authoritarian brutality.

"Johnny will be fine once we break his spirit." Can't source it, but it's a real quote.

Adding to what Ike said - his wife stayed and cleaned up the mess - or tried - created by whoever's job it was to instill the basics of social interaction.

She went above and beyond - unfortunately, kids and human nature are such that fear of looking like an idiot to your peers is the most effective way to modify behavior.

I just called the resource officer and had the idiots pulled out - like I said, low tolerance for that kind of BS.

[Ike Bana]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

What I don't like is the evident pride and satisfaction in telling the 'war stories,' the charge folks get about telling of the success of mean tactics, and the continuing anger both at 'bad kids' and at anyone who dares to question cruel or corporal punishment. There should be a way to run schools that doesn't require cultivating a streak of authoritarian brutality.

"Johnny will be fine once we break his spirit." Can't source it, but it's a real quote.

Don't fucking like the story? Don't fucking read it. Nobody fucking cares what you think don. What was important was the feedback she got from the kids who appreciated having a place to go for 5 hours a day where there was dependable structure...regardless of what it took to maintain it. But it's not like I expect the likes of you...philosophising your own navel all day long...to get it.

[Ike Bana]

Originally Posted by catswiththum

Adding to what Ike said - his wife stayed and cleaned up the mess - or tried - created by whoever's job it was to instill the basics of social interaction.

She went above and beyond - unfortunately, kids and human nature are such that fear of looking like an idiot to your peers is the most effective way to modify behavior.

I just called the resource officer and had the idiots pulled out - like I said, low tolerance for that kind of BS.

Thanks for the feedback. Y'know...the "kind" teachers who didn't want any of the poor kids to feel bad, had classrooms that were chaos where nobody learned a fucking thing. Meantime the blonde was teaching kids in 4th grade who couldn't read anything, 3 years worth of reading skills in 6 months. But DQ thinks she was "mean." Fuckin'-A right she was mean. There were maybe a half-dozen mean teachers who saved the lives of probably only a small percentage of the kids in that neighborhood. That's all that matters.

Now we're inundated with community activists looking for publicity who don't know their asses from a hole in the ground when it comes to what will help the kids in their communities. But they're experts at getting TeeVee time.

[donquixote99]

Originally Posted by Ike Bana

Don't fucking like the story? Don't fucking read it. Nobody fucking cares what you think don. What was important was the feedback she got from the kids who appreciated having a place to go for 5 hours a day where there was dependable structure...regardless of what it took to maintain it. But it's not like I expect the likes of you...philosophising your own navel all day long...to get it.

Gosh, am I a nice guy or what? Look how I gave Ike the chance to do what he loves most--have a nice hot little insult rant!

Say thank-you, Ike!

[donquixote99]

Originally Posted by catswiththum

Adding to what Ike said - his wife stayed and cleaned up the mess - or tried - created by whoever's job it was to instill the basics of social interaction.

She went above and beyond - unfortunately, kids and human nature are such that fear of looking like an idiot to your peers is the most effective way to modify behavior.

I just called the resource officer and had the idiots pulled out - like I said, low tolerance for that kind of BS.

I don't doubt Mrs. Ike was a good person who did good. My criticism was really aimed more at the reporter. In my own case, I behaved well for teachers who liked me and engaged me with respect, and poorly for those who didn't, no matter what punishments they came up with. Seventh grade went quite well with Mr. Schief, eighth grade went poorly with Mr. Beckman. But I'm not sure I was typical.

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by Ike Bana

Don't fucking like the story? Don't fucking read it. Nobody fucking cares what you think don. What was important was the feedback she got from the kids who appreciated having a place to go for 5 hours a day where there was dependable structure...regardless of what it took to maintain it. But it's not like I expect the likes of you...philosophising your own navel all day long...to get it.

Damn, and I thought I did care but, if you say I don't, I must have been wrong.

What you are, Ike, is a sad little megalomaniac wannabe.

[barbara]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

Gosh, am I a nice guy or what? Look how I gave Ike the chance to do what he loves most--have a nice hot little insult rant!



Say thank-you, Ike!

A www come on, don.... If you were a nice guy you would have given him your hat... 😉

[Ike Bana]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

I don't doubt Mrs. Ike was a good person who did good. My criticism was really aimed more at the reporter. In my own case, I behaved well for teachers who liked me and engaged me with respect, and poorly for those who didn't, no matter what punishments they came up with. Seventh grade went quite well with Mr. Schief, eighth grade went poorly with Mr. Beckman. But I'm not sure I was typical.

You just don't get it. Typical is not what this is about. Typical is a walk in the park on a sunny spring morning. So you responded well to teachers who were "nice" and you were a problem for teachers who were "mean." The it's all about don thing apparently started early.