Poor Ben.

[matteos]

Palestine is not Hamas. The Palestinians are not Hamas, but they voted them into power and now they are not leaving it whether they are wanted or not. Hamas is not a government, it is a terrorist organization.

And my points are not directly made against you, but to anyone who thinks this situation is entirely or mostly the fault of Israel.

[matteos]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

Firing rockets and mortars is certainly a violent attack, and justifies defense. Israe'ls 'retaliations' are also violent attacks.

What is their defense supposed to be?

They have built Iron Dome in an attempt (reasonably successful) to intercept the rockets. But the rockets keep coming.

retaliation it is not. The IDF will eventually go in in an attempt to find the people who are firing rockets and kill them. These people are hiding in schools and hospitals. The inevitable collateral damage they use against Israel.

Hamas cares absolutely nothing for the lives of Palestinian women and children. The more of them that die the better for Hamas, so they can point the finger at Israel.
USA got attacked by Al Quaida we invaded and flattened two countries. One of which was not linked in any way.

If Tijuana fired 3 rockets a day into San Diego for ten years, there would not be much left of Tijuana. Half this country wants to build a fence across the entire border and station amred guards with orders to shoot on site.. And that is because there are people trying to sneak in in order to WORK for a PITTANCE.

And yet we condemn Israels blockade and incursions into Palestine to find the people that have fired 11000 rockets in ten years (None of which are guided - They could land anywhere, kill anybody.. Women, children - no difference to HAMAS)

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by matteos

All you've done is say. No they don't, now it isn't.

Facts are staring you in the face whether you choose to accept them or not.

Palestine rockets are well documented.

Money from the USA to the IRA is well documented.

Rockets aren't fired into Israel "every day" or even close to it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...n_Israel,_2015

There never was "lots of support" for the IRA in the US.

These silly claims frankly don't deserve more than a two word response.

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by matteos

Palestine is not Hamas. The Palestinians are not Hamas, but they voted them into power and now they are not leaving it whether they are wanted or not. Hamas is not a government, it is a terrorist organization.

Actually, it's both.

And my points are not directly made against you, but to anyone who thinks this situation is entirely or mostly the fault of Israel.

Since nobody is making the sorts of claims you refer to, your refutations are rather transparent straw man argument, hallmarks of a poor debater. You do your cause no credit by employing them.

[matteos]

Originally Posted by Boreas

Rockets aren't fired into Israel "every day" or even close to it.

There never was "lots of support" for the IRA in the US.

These silly claims frankly don't deserve more than a two word response.

11,000 rockets have been fired into Israel since 2005. It is now 2015. Do the math. That works out to be an average of 3 a day. No they may not fire 3 every single day. Maybe they won't fire for days and then they will fire a shit ton.

If you refuse to accept that statistic than frankly don't cloud up the debate with your head in the sand nonsense.

Irish Americans were some of the major funders of the IRA

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistoria..._of_the_irish/

[matteos]

Originally Posted by Boreas

Since nobody is making the sorts of claims you refer to, your refutations are rather transparent straw man argument, hallmarks of a poor debater. You do your cause no credit by employing them.

We aren't having a debate.

The hallmarks of a poor debater is someone who denies well documented facts as if they never occurred.

[matteos]

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by matteos

We aren't having a debate.

The hallmarks of a poor debater is someone who denies well documented facts as if they never occurred.

Of course we are.

[Ike Bana]

Originally Posted by Boreas

Cite me an example. Really, just one. I'm pretty sure you can't



Actually, I didn't read his post through. After a sentence or two I realized I'd read it before.


Have at it!

But leave ISIS out of the equation. It won't serve your agenda since there is not a soul here defending them and they've got damn all to do with the Palestinians who, by the way, are on Assad's side in Syria (and Lebanon). They don't like him much but they understand he's their only protection.

And how many corpses can you point to that were dragged behind motorbikes in Gaza?

Now, how many Gazan schools and hospitals can you point to which the IDF flattened?

And how many kids have been killed for slinging rocks at tanks and what happened to their entire family as a result?

Most recently, toward the end of the last round of time wasted over Israel and Palestine, Justin decided I was either a racist or a bigot...I'd have to go find it to confirm which one I am, and I'm not taking the time John. If it's that fucking important to you, its just as easy for you to find it...I don't need to, I know I was on the receiving end of it. That's my just one. If Justin wants to be honest about it, he'll confirm it...if he doesn't it's his integrity, not mine. And there have been others in the more remote past as well, finn for one.

As far as schools or hospitals are concerned, they are hit because Hamas wants them hit. Hamas doesn't set up their mortar and rocket stations near schools and hospitals because they want to avoid being targeted. They set up near schools and hospitals because they want casualties, preferably women and children. It's good press for them. Fucking bloodthirsty baby killing Jews makes for great media outrage, eh?

Let's state the obvious: No one likes to see dead children. Well, that's not completely true: Hamas does. They would prefer those children to be Jewish, but there is greater value to them if they are Palestinian. Outmatched by Israel's military, handicapped by rocket launchers with the steady hands of Barney Fife, Hamas is playing the long game of moral revulsion.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/thane-ro...aza-1405970362

The motorbike corpses. OK...OK...Hamas made their statement by publicly gunning down 18 Gaza City citizens, alleged collaborators with Israel. Real nazi stuff, y'know? But yes...they only dragged one of the corpses around town...the exclamation point on their statement. My fucking bad.

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by Ike Bana

Most recently, toward the end of the last round of time wasted over Israel and Palestine, Justin decided I was either a racist or a bigot...I'd have to go find it to confirm which one I am, and I'm not taking the time John.

Ah, but what did you say that prompted that response. You know as well as I do that you're incapable of moderation when it comes to this topic. You said that all it takes is for someone not to condemn Israel as a fascist regime to provoke a negative reaction. We both know that's nonsense.

As far as schools or hospitals are concerned, they are hit because Hamas wants them hit. Hamas doesn't set up their mortar and rocket stations near schools and hospitals because they want to avoid being targeted. They set up near schools and hospitals because they want casualties, preferably women and children. It's good press for them. Fucking bloodthirsty baby killing Jews makes for great media outrage, eh?

The UN and Amnesty International have found this to be far less common than the Israeli government claims. Yes, it happens and yes, it's monstrous but the point is really that there are no good guys in this fight. They're all monsters and it's overwhelmingly the ordinary Palestinians who pay the price.