Roseburg, Oregon School Shooting

[donquixote99]

Originally Posted by Tom Joad

You're examples are obviously not the same thing.

Psychos like this one and your homeboy Dylan Roof are out to kill as many people as possible. In both these situations they are going down the row executing people one by one. If you do nothing, you're fucken dead. If you charge the SOB you're probably still fucken dead but it's a better way to go out. And who knows? You might get lucky.

Charge or run away. The odds of a wound of a clean miss go way up. If you can't get out, dodge around the room. Throw things. Encourage the others.

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by Dondilion

Domino players rout a stick up kid by rushing him.

You're referring to an individual response to an isolated event. Of course, individual acts of self-protection can be effective but they don't address anything beyond the immediate threat. They don't do anything do create a society in which the need for such individual self-preservatory actions are less often necessary.

Carson is basically saying that you'd better be prepared to look out for yourself because the 2nd Amendment is more sacred than human life. Really. That's what he's saying. This isn't leadership. It isn't even human.

This is the same thing, only worse, as Jeb Bush's "Stuff happens" comment regarding the same tragedy. This is the same thing, probably about as bad, ad Jindal saying that the blame for the shooting rests with the shooter's father.

All these people deny the collective responsibility we bear as a society for individual safety. Their position is basically that it's not society's problem or government's problem. It's yours. If you want to be safe, get a gun.

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

Charge or run away. The odds of a wound of a clean miss go way up. If you can't get out, dodge around the room. Throw things. Encourage the others.

These are countermeasures, not solutions.

[donquixote99]

Originally Posted by Boreas

These are countermeasures, not solutions.

Of course. The sort of thing I suggested is possibly helpful in the event, but does nothing to prevent the event from happening.

[barbara]

Originally Posted by Boreas

You're referring to an individual response to an isolated event. Of course, individual acts of self-protection can be effective but they don't address anything beyond the immediate threat. They don't do anything do create a society in which the need for such individual self-preservatory actions are less often necessary.



Carson is basically saying that you'd better be prepared to look out for yourself because the 2nd Amendment is more sacred than human life. Really. That's what he's saying. This isn't leadership. It isn't even human.



This is the same thing, only worse, as Jeb Bush's "Stuff happens" comment regarding the same tragedy. This is the same thing, probably about as bad, ad Jindal saying that the blame for the shooting rests with the shooter's father.



All these people deny the collective responsibility we bear as a society for individual safety. Their position is basically that it's not society's problem or government's problem. It's yours. If you want to be safe, get a gun.

Great post. You said it all so well.
Thank you.

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

Of course. The sort of thing I suggested is possibly helpful in the event, but does nothing to prevent the event from happening.

Exactly but these are the "solutions" put forward by the right. The 2nd Amendment is sacred and so, by extension, are guns. They are a fetish object. The 2nd Amendment is divinely inspired text and the human carnage wrought by guns is a sacrifice on the altar of the NRA. That this issue is even a topic for debate is a clear indication of how deranged we are as a country. That one side in the debate insists that the solution is more guns and less governmental control over them is the final proof.

I suppose we all have a little problem with Michael Moore at times but a quote from a Canadian he interviewed in Bowling for Columbine is worth remembering.

"If more guns make people safer, then America would be one of the safest countries in the world. It isn't. It's the opposite."

We have more guns per capita than any other country in the world and, except for an active war zone or two, we're the least safe from gun related violence. How will more guns do anything other than make things worse?

[Rex E.]

Someone asked where all the good guys with gun were to protect the students. Here is your answer...

http://m.dailykos.com/story/2015/10/...h-Good-Guy-Gun

[bobabode]

Originally Posted by Rex E.

Someone asked where all the good guys with gun were to protect the students. Here is your answer...

http://m.dailykos.com/story/2015/10/...h-Good-Guy-Gun

That guy in the Vegas Walmart is a classic example. As others have stated, the aggressor has the element of surprise.

I don't have a problem with someone having a 1911 or a Mossberg pump in their home for protection but the proliferation CCPs around the country is a clear and present danger to me, mine and the public at large.

[Rex E.]

Originally Posted by bobabode

That guy in the Vegas Walmart is a classic example. As others have stated, the aggressor has the element of surprise.

I don't have a problem with someone having a 1911 or a Mossberg pump in their home for protection but the proliferation CCPs around the country is a clear and present danger to me, mine and the public at large.

I was just showing that there were folks present with CC and that their level of training and intelligence (and lack of need of "hero" status) kept them from pulling their weapons and making a mess possibly much worse.

[Rajoo]

Originally Posted by BeamOn

http://www.oregonlive.com/education/...ege_not_a.html

So where were all the armed good citizens that allowed this carnage to happen?

Originally Posted by Rex E.

Someone asked where all the good guys with gun were to protect the students. Here is your answer...

http://m.dailykos.com/story/2015/10/...h-Good-Guy-Gun

That was me and thank you for the followup.