Irish Gay Marriage Referendum

[Ike Bana]

We may have our SCOTUS cases, but Ireland appears to be on the brink of passing a nationwide referendum legalising same-sex marriage on May 22. Latest polls indicate that 76% of the people of Ireland support the referendum. And guess who's fighting it tooth and nail??? The Catholic Bishops and conservative Catholics.

The alarming tendency of the 'No' side was evident last weekend. Catholic conservative Breda O’Brien, a member of the Iona Institute and a leading commentator, said that while she herself was happily married, gays should not be allowed the same right. Worse, she added that gays who are not married should not have sex. As the Irish Independent reported, “She believes if gays want to live a Christian way of life, like all unmarried couples, they should abstain from sex: ‘If you can live up to this very demanding thing, I think it will make you happy [to abstain]. It will be excruciatingly difficult. I think you will need huge support, huge help, lots of very strong, loving relationships.’" Nothing like someone trumpeting their own happy marriage while seeking to deny others the same right. And if they can't get married they can’t be Christian either if they have sex! It is such intolerance and moral superiority that probably ensures the same sex referendum will pass. The days when quasi-church spokespeople could ordain how people live their private lives is long gone. Rory O'Neill, also known as the drag queen Panti Bliss, a leader of the same sex marriage movement, said O’Brien and others like her should “get the f*** out of my life.”

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/iri...-its-head.html

[Pio1980]

The Catholic Church surrendered any credibility it may have claimed as a moral arbiter/critic with the priest abuse scandals.
Few things trump betrayal of trust and abuse of authority as child abuse on a scale of ethical transgression. Conversely, I don't think relationships between consenting adults qualify for censure by anyone.

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[Boreas]

Originally Posted by Pio1980

The Catholic Church surrendered any credibility it may have claimed as a moral arbiter/critic with the priest abuse scandals.
Few things trump betrayal of trust and abuse of authority as child abuse on a scale of ethical transgression. Conversely, I don't think relationships between consenting adults qualify for censure by anyone.

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Yes. It's implicit in what you wrote, Steve, but what we're talking about here is an ethical transgression which is institutional in scope and centuries old in duration. It is, in the most literal of terms, inexcusable and unforgivable.

Even Pope Francis, who I believe to be a profoundly good and brave man, seems to be afraid to seriously address this disgraceful matter. It continues to be a stain on the Church and will eventually become a stain on his papacy.

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by Boreas

Yes. It's implicit in what you wrote, Steve, but what we're talking about here is an ethical transgression which is institutional in scope and centuries old in duration. It is, in the most literal of terms, inexcusable and unforgivable.

Even Pope Francis, who I believe to be a profoundly good and brave man, seems to be afraid to seriously address this disgraceful matter. It continues to be a stain on the Church and will eventually become a stain on his papacy.

He's doing some stuff to address it. However, I think the degree to which it permeated the Church, all the way to the Vatican, surprised and shocked him. As bad as we believe it is (or was), I suspect it was much worse.

[Ike Bana]

It's far from the only stain the Francis oughta be addressing.

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by Ike Bana

It's far from the only stain the Francis oughta be addressing.

The Vatican Bank scandal would have landed a lot of folks in jail were the Vatican not its own sovereign state.

[Ike Bana]

Originally Posted by finnbow

The Vatican Bank scandal would have landed a lot of folks in jail were the Vatican not its own sovereign state.

Ever been to the Vatican Museum? Misnamed, I say. Better the "Vatican House of Pious Plunder."

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by Ike Bana

Ever been to the Vatican Museum? Misnamed, I say. Better the "Vatican House of Pious Plunder."

4 or 5 times over the years. Amazing place. Equally impressive in terms of jaw-dropping plunder/tribute/baubles is the Topkapi Palace in Istanbul. I suppose ruling major parts of the developed world for centuries had its benefits.

[donquixote99]

It's just stuff. The old status symbols of dead people.

I'd like to make a museum exhibit: sparkling glass cases, pinpoint lighting, lushly decorated space, data-cards with perfect typography--all highlighting the sort of stuff I'm always picking up: odd nuts and bolts and interesting rocks.

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

It's just stuff. The old status symbols of dead people.

Sort of like the Smithsonian.