"A stunning victory."

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by Ike Bana

Au contraire, mon frere. I strongly believe in redemption. But here's the thing about redemption. It only matters to humans. The beasts don't need no fucking redemption. The beasts are honorable and have integrity. It's built in.

Humans on the other hand often require redemption, and also by their frequent inhumanity towards other humans and beasts, by their proof of being sub-human, some have disqualified themselves from redemption.

So, which are the ISIS fighters? Are they humans capable of redemption or are they beasts with honor and integrity?

By the way, there's some agreement between us here (if you'll acknowledge it). The capacity to commit the sorts of atrocities committed by ISIS is an uniquely human characteristic. No other creature on earth has our capacity for anything remotely resembling the sorts of depraved acts we commit on a daily basis.

[Ike Bana]

Originally Posted by BlueStreak

Yeah, Yeah , Yeah..............

Anybody who disagrees with US/Israeli policy is an "anti-Semite" in the style of Adolf Hitler............

Bullshit, Ike.

Dave

Now wait a minute Dave. I make a comment, supported by the historical record, that Jews are convenient scapegoats and you spew the a-S word (I'm reluctant to even use it anymore with everybody going so hysterical over it), but in defense of the fucking word you brought up again, I put up the wiki on the subject. And like a horse taking the bit and running, now I just called anybody who opposes Israeli policy Hitler? Its already been pointed out that somebody else in this joint won the Godwin's award. Jesus fucking Christ on a pgo stick, Dave.

[Ike Bana]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

A quick superficial analysis that gets to the right answer is called a heuristic. Works for me. A good-enough theory of where you're coming-from removes most of the 'challenge' I spoke of.

Holy Christ Don, I really don't know if I should be feeling complimented or offended. Although I am impressed with your literary skills. Anyway, I don't want to be rude and not respond when you took the time to create this masterful post...but I am gonna need some help from you as to what it means. Thanks in advance.

[donquixote99]

Originally Posted by Ike Bana

Holy Christ Don, I really don't know if I should be feeling complimented or offended. Although I am impressed with your literary skills. Anyway, I don't want to be rude and not respond when you took the time to create this masterful post...but I am gonna need some help from you as to what it means. Thanks in advance.

You do too want to be rude....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOtQYNIqclM

[Ike Bana]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

You do too want to be rude....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOtQYNIqclM

I was really asking for clarification Don and just tryin' to have a little fun with it. But if you're going to go all hissy on me then I'll do my best to be more dour in the future.

I have no idea what your post meant, so one more time...if you will be so kind as to tell me what it means I will provide a reply to the best of my ability.

[Ike Bana]

Originally Posted by Boreas

So, which are the ISIS fighters? Are they humans capable of redemption or are they beasts with honor and integrity?

Y'know...I picked Boko Haram for the context because I hoped we might have this discussion with somewhat limited variables. But OK, John it's gotta be your context. I get it. ISIS it is. In answer to your question they're neither. Humans, even the best of them have nothing approaching the honor and integrity of the lowliest beast. ISIS members are probably currently the worst of what we might otherwise call human beings, next to Boko Haram anyway. So the choices you offered are mildly loaded dontcha think? But anyway, if they don't qualify as honorable beasts, that leaves humans capable of redemption. You really think, after ISIS takes these innocent people out onto the beach and hacks their heads of with a butter knife I'm going to think they're flawed humans worthy of redemption? Members of ISIS, every stinking one of them are sub-human, and certainly sub-beast scum. It's cluster bombs for all of them when I'm President. And I'll take it a step further John...anybody who supports them in any way is just as bad.

Originally Posted by Boreas

By the way, there's some agreement between us here (if you'll acknowledge it). The capacity to commit the sorts of atrocities committed by ISIS is an uniquely human characteristic. No other creature on earth has our capacity for anything remotely resembling the sorts of depraved acts we commit on a daily basis.

Of course. It's to the point where human existence on this planet is a depraved act. At best, humans are locusts with intelligence and technology. (So am I saying locusts aren't noble beasts? Maybe so, eh?) My fear in acknowledging this is that we're going to end up playing some semantical game with the terms I've chosen to use...human...inhuman...subhuman. So if this starts heading there, all I'm going to have to say on it is...you know where I'm coming from.

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by Ike Bana

Y'know...I picked Boko Haram for the context because I hoped we might have this discussion with somewhat limited variables. But OK, John it's gotta be your context. I get it. ISIS it is.

We can go with Boko Haram. It doesn't change anything. Either they're human and capable of redemption or they're not and in no need of redemption.

In answer to your question they're neither.

Yet they were born human. How did this transmogrification occur?

Humans, even the best of them have nothing approaching the honor and integrity of the lowliest beast.

What "beasts" lack is a capacity for hatred (although some may argue that it's something elephants are capable of). Honor isn't really apt, though integrity and altruism definitely are.

ISIS members are probably currently the worst of what we might otherwise call human beings, next to Boko Haram anyway. So the choices you offered are mildly loaded dontcha think?

No, I don't. It was advised but not loaded.

But anyway, if they don't qualify as honorable beasts, that leaves humans capable of redemption. You really think, after ISIS takes these innocent people out onto the beach and hacks their heads of with a butter knife I'm going to think they're flawed humans worthy of redemption?

I believe the possibility exists. What you believe is up to you.

Members of ISIS, every stinking one of them are sub-human, and certainly sub-beast scum.

It's a capacity to view every single individual in a group in those terms that led to the holocaust.

It's cluster bombs for all of them when I'm President.

Cluster bombs kill indiscriminately and for a very long time after they're dropped. Are you comfortable with the idea that your cluster bombs will go on killing long after ISIS or Boko Haram are gone?

And I'll take it a step further John...anybody who supports them in any way is just as bad.

If insisting upon the humanity of members of ISIS and Boko Haram and, therefore in the potential for their redemption counts as "support", then so be it. I'm much more interested in being comfortable in my own skin than I am in your opinion of me.

Of course. It's to the point where human existence on this planet is a depraved act. At best, humans are locusts with intelligence and technology.

Your regard for your fellow man is quite touching.

[nailer]

In the wild dolphins and chimpanzees display inhumane behavior toward their own.

[Tom Joad]

Originally Posted by nailer

In the wild dolphins and chimpanzees display inhuman behavior toward their own.

Well there you go then.

Justification for us humans to behave inhumanely.

[Ike Bana]

Originally Posted by Boreas

We can go with Boko Haram. It doesn't change anything. Either they're human and capable of redemption or they're not and in no need of redemption.

They may be in need of redemption. Maybe some Christian wants to take the time to figure that out. Not me. I say they've divested themselves of any right to redemption that they might once have had.



Yet they were born human. How did this transmogrification occur?

Well it's semantics...but OK. They're still human. But through their behavior eliminated themselves from being eligible for any human consideration...whatever TF that might be.

What "beasts" lack is a capacity for hatred (although some may argue that it's something elephants are capable of). Honor isn't really apt, though integrity and altruism definitely are.

If you say so. You know where I'm coming from.

No, I don't. It was advised but not loaded.

I disagree. Fully loaded, actually.

I believe the possibility exists. What you believe is up to you.

Which is the end game for any discussion here. I think as soon as somebody does their OP the next post should automatically be "What you believe is up to you." Then nobody would be wasting their time anymore, and we could all adjourn to a website somewhere that wasn't an utterly barren source of amusement.

It's a capacity to view every single individual in a group in those terms that led to the holocaust.

Those responsible for the holocaust were wrong in their evaluation of who is worthy of human consideration and who is not. I'm right.

Cluster bombs kill indiscriminately and for a very long time after they're dropped. Are you comfortable with the idea that your cluster bombs will go on killing long after ISIS or Boko Haram are gone?

Moabs then. OK?

If insisting upon the humanity of members of ISIS and Boko Haram and, therefore in the potential for their redemption counts as "support", then so be it. I'm much more interested in being comfortable in my own skin than I am in your opinion of me.

Of course. It's to the point where human existence on this planet is a depraved act. At best, humans are locusts with intelligence and technology.[/QUOTE]

Your regard for your fellow man is quite touching.[/QUOTE]

We're all guilty. Nobody's clean. Every human being who has ever lived on the face of this earth is responsible for what our species has done and is doing to the planet. But it all works out in the end. Sooner or later, and the way the climate is going, probably sooner...the planet will no longer support human life and the planet will be forever freed from the scourge of hummanity. And it will be left to the noble creatures who survive. I couldn't grab the word "noble" earlier and substituted honor and integrity, neither of which, I readily admit, actually fits.