Maine weighs revoking seat belt law days after 75-car pileup - Page 2

Countryford · #11 03-01-2015, 07:12 AM

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The Republican from Auburn acknowledged that people should wear seat belts and said he hopes the accident serves as a reminder of the importance to do so. But said he believes the mandate infringes on people's freedom to make personal decisions.

Need I say more?

Ike Bana · #12 03-01-2015, 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by donquixote99

Principles can be stupid, harmful, or evil, and still be principles.....

I remember back in during the early days of Clinton's presidency. The right was up Bill's ass for his position on public education while sending his daughter to a private school. His response was to the effect that they were not going to sacrifice their daughter for principle.

donquixote99 · #13 03-01-2015, 07:32 AM

That could of course be framed as a conflict of principles. Isn't it a very important principle that the well-being of one's children must be maximized? So Bill wasn't being unprincipled, he just was in a dilemma where he had to choose between principles.

An unprincipled response would have been 'The heck with her, send her to the public school, it will make me look good.'

Ike Bana · #14 03-01-2015, 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by donquixote99

That could of course be framed as a conflict of principles. Isn't it a very important principle that the well-being of one's children must be maximized? So Bill wasn't being unprincipled, he just was in a dilemma where he had to choose between principles.

An unprincipled response would have been 'The heck with her, send her to the public school, it will make me look good.'

Bill wasn't being accused of being unprincipled, he was accused of being a hypocrite. Maybe hypocrites are automatically unprincipled in the minds of some...but I've already gone more analytically deep into this than provides any enjoyment for myself.

Boreas · #15 03-01-2015, 07:57 AM

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Originally Posted by Countryford

Need I say more?

Nope. I think you've pretty well pegged yourself.

donquixote99 · #16 03-01-2015, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ike Bana

Bill wasn't being accused of being unprincipled, he was accused of being a hypocrite. Maybe hypocrites are automatically unprincipled in the minds of some...but I've already gone more analytically deep into this than provides any enjoyment for myself.

This then is just for my own amusement, feel free to ignore.

A hypocrite is a type of liar--a person who pretends to principles he doesn't actually believe in. If a person does believe in a principle, but is nonetheless willing to sacrifice it to a 'higher' principle, are they still a hypocrite? Maybe a half-hypocrite? Is this where some of those famous 'shades of grey' come it?

Rajoo · #17 03-01-2015, 09:53 AM

Hypocrites tend to be more dogmatic than pragmatic and they apply their principles only on others. When it comes to themselves, they view is very different.

If a person is a liar, one can usually have a conversation regarding this. Try talking to a hypocrite regarding their principles and it will get you nowhere. But then again, we are all hypocrites to a certain degree, either from selfishness or a matter of convenience.

I know I am especially when it comes to my driving.

Countryford · #18 03-01-2015, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boreas

Nope. I think you've pretty well pegged yourself.

My post wasn't to debate weather or not seat belts are a good idea or if they should be worn. What I was trying to get across is, I don't think the government should be telling us that we have to wear them.

Rajoo · #19 03-01-2015, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Countryford

My post wasn't to debate weather or not seat belts are a good idea or if they should be worn. What I was trying to get across is, I don't think the government should be telling us that we have to wear them.

So how about consuming alcoholic beverages before or during and using handheld phone, texting and so on? Can there be limits imposed at all on personal freedom when it impacts the well being or life of others?

Unless you want to sound like Rand Paul.

donquixote99 · #20 03-01-2015, 10:32 AM

There are harms done to others when a person doesn't wear a seatbelt. As mentioned, it's very possible that others will have to contribute to expensive medical care, and perhaps long-term disability maintenance. Also, at the time of the accident, you can lose control of the vehicle due to not being restrained in the driving position, which could lead to a further collision that injures others.

It's all a matter of what the government is requiring citizens to do, and what sanctions are threatened. in this case, if someone is too stupid or defiant to wear a seatbelt, I'm not going to feel much outrage over a minor-misdemeanor level of sanction.