Religion has had it's time.

[d-ray657]

Originally Posted by whell

Of course there are extremists on both ends of the spectrum of the religious debate that give their respective causes a black eye. The folks in the middle are caught up in the damage caused by the folks on the extremes who can't seem to embrace the concept of "live and let live". For example, while you might admire his conviction, here's an example of someone who can't "live and let live":

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/new...sade/22253013/

As far as religious types who don't get it, one need look no further than what's going on in Iraq and Syria.

Unfortunately, it sounds like the responses to him are anything but "Christian." I do suppose that there are some instances in which atheism can be considered religious extremism.

Regards,

D-Ray

[nailer]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

Most who think the Bible is either anti-intellectual and or a good tool for controlling people haven't read it (I strongly rec Jesus's conversations with Pilate for politically-minded people particularly). There is a reason the renaissance followed/partnered with the printing press, classical works along with the ubiquitous and no need for name 'Book': Bible.

As the last century has shown, whenever you toss out right and wrong and go for 'situational ethics' people tend to die in large numbers.

Pete

I'm a secular Methodist and as such I think Jesus of Nazareth's primary point as captured in the Gospels is - we're all in this together, let's help each other out. I believe/think Jesus' primary point is a good one. I think/believe that we don't need religion to be moral because it's part of being human in that we are born with moral instinct.

[Wasillaguy]

Originally Posted by merrylander

The Declaration of Independence speaks of a 'creator' and from what I have read most of the founders were 'deists' in fact did not Jefferson create his own bible by simply cutting out the bits he agreed with and pasting them into a blank book?

We have seen what a theocratic government can do and surely want no part of that.

I think pretty much everyone does this to some extent, though few go through the physical process of actually cutting and pasting. As we all know, you can find support in the Bible for just about any stance, if you look hard enough. I think it's by design, to appeal to the widest audience.

On the thought that the world would be as moral and non-violent without religion, I'm not so sure. They were practicing cannibalism in the Fiji islands until the second boatload of missionaries showed up with cattle.
You know what happened to the first boatload.

[bobabode]

Originally Posted by nailer

I'm a secular Methodist and as such I think Jesus of Nazareth's primary point as captured in the Gospels is - we're all in this together, let's help each other out. I believe/think Jesus' primary point is a good one. I think/believe that we don't need religion to be moral because it's part of being human in that we are born with moral instinct.

Dang Bob, well said for a Baltimoron.

[merrylander]

Originally Posted by nailer

I'm a secular Methodist and as such I think Jesus of Nazareth's primary point as captured in the Gospels is - we're all in this together, let's help each other out. I believe/think Jesus' primary point is a good one. I think/believe that we don't need religion to be moral because it's part of being human in that we are born with moral instinct.

I was going to debate this then I suddenly remembered our son as a child (And if I forgot for a moment he is 49 years old so it was some time ago). Whenever he would come in from playing to use the john or summat if there were new cookies on the plate he would not only ask for one but also one for each of his chums that were outside. So yeah, we probably are born with it but have it 'educated' out of us along the way.

So I was gone for 10-15 minutes to feed the kitties and got logged out. Just wanted to note that our ophthalmologist is quite pleased with me the AMD is still dry and the vision in the right eye seems to be getting better. Ah the golden years are here at last, the golden years can kiss my ***

[whell]

Originally Posted by d-ray657

Unfortunately, it sounds like the responses to him are anything but "Christian." I do suppose that there are some instances in which atheism can be considered religious extremism.

Regards,

D-Ray

So he says. However, looks like he's also made a career out of taking on municipalities over religious iconography.

[whell]

Originally Posted by nailer

I'm a secular Methodist and as such I think Jesus of Nazareth's primary point as captured in the Gospels is - we're all in this together, let's help each other out. I believe/think Jesus' primary point is a good one. I think/believe that we don't need religion to be moral because it's part of being human in that we are born with moral instinct.

While we're all capable of being moral, morals can be subjective and subject to redefinition by - in worst cases - the least common denominators among us. The value of religious institutions are that they can service as a way to set and stabilize morality within a culture. Unfortunately, history also shows that - since they are run by humans - they can also be corrupted. That said, I think for the most part religious institutions have done far more good than not, and are capable of doing more good.

[Rajoo]

Religion is good if it operates within well defined boundaries. Inside your homes and places of worship. But when the religious dogma's start to leak out into the public, this starts to divide the people.

Claiming that they are run by humans and can be corrupted is a cop out and in which case, what is wrong with adhering strictly to the separation of church and state? Or do you believe this is not expressly forbidden in the constitution?

[hillbilly]

Originally Posted by merrylander

Dave we don't have to fear Hell, it is right here now. Go into any supermarket and watch the young women mistreat older folk. Any possibility that people today possess any social graces is remote in the extreme. Drive your car a few miles and observe your fellow motorists, and you don't dare admonish them as they may be armed.

Rob, things must be very different where you live. It's nothing like that here. Elderly get the upmost respect here. You walk in a store, old or young and you'll hardly need to grab the door as someone will hold it open for you. That is no joke. And when I go to the store, it's hard to get out of there because the folks will talk your ears off. You pass a car on any country road out here and they'll wave at you, and only look at you puzzled if you pretentend you didn't see them or to good to say hi back. Out of honesty, I was thrown in culture shock when I drove up north to the fest. Had a pizza guy at a redlight scream shit at us when I didn't ''floor it'' soon as the light turned green. They had no respect for people finding their way through a place we were only traveling through. Stopped for gas and folks didn't speak, just walked past bumping shoulders like they had a chip on theirs. You will not find that in my area. And garages do not ask you to wait in no office. People bullshit with the mechanic's while the work is being done. There are stools and chairs ''in the mechanic area'' if you want to go watch. In fact, if a local was to be told to stay in the office, they'd feel they were going to get screwed and take it somewhere else.

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by d-ray657

Unfortunately, it sounds like the responses to him are anything but "Christian." I do suppose that there are some instances in which atheism can be considered religious extremism.

Regards,

D-Ray

Believing there is no God is still a belief system and some Atheists can and have become intolerant of others. I have a friend, a Turkish woman who lives here, who is Atheist. (Her family in Turkey is Muslim.) She is a very warm and friendly person, I have attended parties at her home several times......just don't get her started on religion, she will blister your ears. I think the environment she was raised in has a lot to do with it.

Dave