Darren Wilson's Side of the Story

[donquixote99]

HA! But that was originally Finn's line, so his should be the honor....

[bobabode]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

That's a right agreeable notion, and one will feel moved to affirm it, and proud to do so--as long as you think the man with the gun is your man, eh?

You probably think I'm all wet. But why the heck do you feel such apoligia for authoritarianism is worth saying, otherwise?

Is that a whellie you just pulled outta your ass Don. Parse much?

[sheltiedave]

The senator is actually saying, "if you don't indict, Ferguson is going to burn."

That is not inciting, it is a measured and reasonable assessment of what is going to go down. Multiple areas in St. Louis, Kansas City, Cahokia, East St. Louis, Belleville, Venice, Granite City, Alton, Ferguson, Moline Acres, Madison, Cairo, Carbondale, and elsewhere will see some riots, fires, torchings, and firearm based shootings and killings. You don't understand how deep the antipathy is.

The areas that police never investigate New Years Eve firearm discharges are all going to become very dicey indeed. A lot of people are not in tune with the level of discontent to hatred that has been created by the post-Sheriff Taylor era of policing. Of the three recent police killings of younger black men in St. Louis, only one was generally accepted as justified - and that one was grudgingly so by the black community.

The black community here is engaged, motivated, and here to stay. They are not happy that there have been zero police charged with a crime for killing a black person in the past decade, so they have protested at City Hall, in Ferguson, at the Rams game, at the Symphony, at concerts, at the universitys, on the major highways, at grocery stores, at businesses, and they will have no problem revisiting the riots in broad daylight with deaths and bombs and other collateral damage.

For the majority of people in this thread, this is an exercise in semantics. Here in St. Louis, it is going to get ugly. And the police could not handle the first go around at all, completely f'ing it up until the State Highway Patrol figured things out. The next time is going to be infinitely worse. All the school districts have asked that the presser not be announced until all the schoolchildren are home. The National Guard has been requested to respond on a two hour notice. We will know when it goes down by the PDs cancelling all their vacation time. What fun.

Our local neighborhood safe association has developed our emergency plan, with all the five access streets being blocked off with cars and manned by armed guards/retired military folks. For the first three or four days, it is going to be Watts/Detroit, so y'all can have fun watching from afar. We are fourteen miles from Ferguson, so hopefully we can avoid most of it, if I stay home from work.

[Rajoo]

Thank you for a detailed assessment of the situation sheltiedave.
It's a no win situation and much graver than I ever envisioned. Speculating on my part seems utterly counterproductive and I will wait and hope for the best possible of outcomes, whatever that may be. Sincerely hope that you and your family can weather the unrest if it comes to be.

[donquixote99]

Originally Posted by bobabode

Is that a whellie you just pulled outta your ass Don. Parse much?

I ask again, why does such stereotyped macho gun talk, with mention of damage to ass, no less, feel to you like it was called-for? Was there someone arguing that it's NOT a good idea to obey people with guns? I missed that.

I point out again that all this was in response to Sheltiedave saying he didn't like it being cop doctrine that 'once the gun comes out, you're going down.' Which I see as a fucked-up perversion of 'don't draw unless you're prepared to shoot.'

Is the difference truly so subtle?

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

I ask again, why does such stereotyped macho gun talk, with mention of damage to ass, no less, feel to you like it was called-for? Was there someone arguing that it's NOT a good idea to obey people with guns? I missed that.

I point out again that all this was in response to Sheltiedave saying he didn't like it being cop doctrine that 'once the gun comes out, you're going down.' Which I see as a fucked-up perversion of 'don't draw unless you're prepared to shoot.'

Is the difference truly so subtle?

I'd like to see that doctrine in print, rather than just asserted.

[sheltiedave]

Don, my noted perversion was originally the gun would be drawn, and you would get winged, and that was the end of it. Nowadays it means you are going to get shot, and there are 15 bullets the cop is happy to blow your way. The courts will honor the codified conduct rule.

Escalation means you either run, faceplant, or you will be killed. The problem with Brown is he attempted to faceplant, and was killed anyway.

For the majority of black young adults in St. Louis, Brown exposed an untenable situation. The situation is now run, or be ready to pull your gun and join the wild west. And that leads nowhere good really fast.

[sheltiedave]

Originally Posted by finnbow

I'd like to see that doctrine in print, rather than just asserted.

Finnbow, Zeke has pounded it into our heads this entire thread. If you do anything that justifies a cop to pull their gun, they are trained to use any means necessary to ensure compliance. If compliance means you end up dead, then it was a GOOD SHOT.

[bobabode]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

I ask again, why does such stereotyped macho gun talk, with mention of damage to ass, no less, feel to you like it was called-for? Was there someone arguing that it's NOT a good idea to obey people with guns? I missed that.

I point out again that all this was in response to Sheltiedave saying he didn't like it being cop doctrine that 'once the gun comes out, you're going down.' Which I see as a fucked-up perversion of 'don't draw unless you're prepared to shoot.'

Is the difference truly so subtle?

I haven't the slightest clue why you would think I'm an apologist for authoritarianism Don.

[nailer]

Originally Posted by sheltiedave

Finnbow, Zeke has pounded it into our heads this entire thread. If you do anything that justifies a cop to pull their gun, they are trained to use any means necessary to ensure compliance. If compliance means you end up dead, then it was a GOOD SHOT.

If you strip away all of Zeke's I'm going to get these yahoos all riled up BS, a decent amount of accuracy remains. I've used some of what he has said in the following:

Law enforcement has established protocols for the conditions under which officers can draw and discharge their weapons and these protocols are derived from our laws, regulations, guidelines, and legal precedence. The only reason an officer should be drawing his weapon is to eliminate a clear and present danger to his and/or others life and limb. There is no other reason for an officer to draw his weapon. Winging the danger is a movie fantasy which is why they are center shot trained .

Good/bad shot is police jargon for following or not following the protocols.

Whether the force used is reasonable or excessive is determined by the same laws, regulations, guidelines and legal precedence.

That's my take.