Police Officers Fire 600 Bullets into Car Knowing It Contained a Hostage, Killing Her

[piece-itpete]

The police were to blame for the death?

Pete

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

The police were to blame for the death?

Pete

In a very literal analysis? Yes, they were. You are responsible for every bullet that you fire.

But context matters.

Stop the public threat. That's the job.

If you're not willing to do that, you shouldn't have the job.

Yes, it WILL keep you awake at night.

[piece-itpete]

I find it surprising that people blame the cops when it was 100% the bad guys fault.

Pete

[donquixote99]

Well, given that police filled the hostage with bullets, we want to understand the tactical options better.

It's been suggested, for example, that it's might have worked out better to back off the running-gun-battle idea, in favor of tracking the suspects with the helicopter that was in the air, and then surrounding the suspects when they stopped.

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

I find it surprising that people blame the cops when it was 100% the bad guys fault.

Pete

Mostly, it's because they possess little concept of what the ethics of the job involves.

"Public safety." PUBLIC.

There's a point -- and it's malleable -- where a threat to public safety (including the lives of officers) demands you take action when you will absolutely lose a single life (even if an innocent).

Playing God?

Yes.

That's the job.

The difficult part involves chases. Given any choice, you don't want to engage in them. Stop or contain the incident BEFORE one starts.

If you must become engaged, you have to end it as quickly as possible if suspects are deemed armed. You can't just passively track/allow armed individuals to roll unimpaired through neighborhoods where they can harm others, separate, escape, etc. (That's just horrifically naive. Then, you have THREE hostage situations.)

It grows all around iffy, which is why many municipalities do not condone chases by their officers unless the most dire of circumstance.

But, even were that the case here, hostages qualify.

It's easy to Monday Morning QB if you don't know the rules...

[Tom Joad]

Originally Posted by Zeke

Mostly, it's because they possess little concept of what the ethics of the job involves.

"Public safety." PUBLIC.

There's a point -- and it's malleable -- where a threat to public safety (including the lives of officers) demands you take action when you will absolutely lose a single life (even if an innocent).

Playing God?

Yes.

That's the job.

The difficult part involves chases. Given any choice, you don't want to engage in them. Stop or contain the incident BEFORE one starts.

If you must become engaged, you have to end it as quickly as possible if suspects are deemed armed. You can't just passively track/allow armed individuals to roll unimpaired through neighborhoods where they can harm others, separate, escape, etc. (That's just horrifically naive. Then, you have THREE hostage situations.)

It grows all around iffy, which is why many municipalities do not condone chases by their officers unless the most dire of circumstance.

But, even were that the case here, hostages qualify.

It's easy to Monday Morning QB if you don't know the rules...

I think you and every Goddamned Cop that thinks like you should be fired and never allowed to work in law enforcement again.

I'm an honest law abiding citizen who has never been in trouble with the law and I think you're an arrogant prick.

How in the Hell are you going to be able to deal with the people in the community you serve if you come off like that to someone like me?

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by Tom Joad

I think you and every Goddamned Cop that thinks like you should be fired and never allowed to work in law enforcement again.

Again, even if you were accurate in your assessment, an example of rank ignorance. If you don't like how the game is played, change the rules not the folks hired to follow them. "Think like I do?" That's the training. If you don't like it, start there.

But you'll fail because what is taught has been validated over time, codified into actions, and sanctified within the responsibility of those willing to perform a function you clearly could not (and there's nothing wrong with that: I walked away from such things).

That's just the way it is but, by all means, continue with you ineffective and overemotional missives.

[barbara]

Some local perspective:

The police chase went from stockton to Lodi and back to stockton..... On the way, the gun battle and chase went through residential areas and past at least two schools (I think it was three schools but can't verify) at the time children were being released from classes. Law enforcement from several different municipalities and the sheriff were in pursuit. I know several people who live in neighborhoods where the chase occurred and their homes have the bullet holes to remember the event. There was, without a doubt, a high risk of danger to many innocent bystanders.

As for the helicopter..... Not sure the S. J. County sheriff department still has one. This county is one if the poorest in the state and back around 2004/2005 they had to sell the helicopter they had because they couldn't afford to fly or maintain it. Since that time, I have heard that a helicopter was donated but, still no money to actually fly the thing. I'm not sure what the current status is..... But it has been at about ten years since I've seen a sheriff helicopter in the sky around here.

It's horrible that Misty was killed and that her daughter had to witness the abduction. But, hey.... This is stockton we are talking about....

[donquixote99]

Ah, it's Stockton. Well, excuse me. My mistake.

Forget I said anything.

[barbara]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

Ah, it's Stockton. Well, excuse me. My mistake.

Forget I said anything.

Exactly.........
This is what people have come to expect in a culture where gun ownership is nurtured and the collection of automatic weapons gives one special status.

Isn't this a wonderful culture we've created?