18 and Dead.

[Tom Joad]

Originally Posted by icenine

Having qualified more than once with a 9mm Baretta there may be a firing range accuracy, but in real life everyone knows a pistol is not worth shit in combat. In Iraq we used to say leave one bullit in your weapon (meaning pistol in our case being Corpsman) for yourself. In other words if you are having to use a pistol you must be the last guy standing in a firefight or convoy surrounded by the enemy about to be taken POW.

It is hard to qualify with a pistol on the range standing still. I would imagine in a real life situation the accuracy really goes down after a few feet.

My son has also said the same thing about a pistol being a weapon of last resort in comat, but that doesn't mean that Special Forces dudes aren't damned good with them. They don't do things like qualify at the range like the regular Army. Generally before every deployment they do some really intense training. For example the Army will pay thousands of dollars per man to send them to am intense shooting school. This is one of the ones my son has been to several times:

http://www.weaponstraining.com/

There's another one in Mississippi that I forget the name of.

Then there is SFARTAETC at Ft. Bragg.

[Tom Joad]

Originally Posted by Zeke

I still call bullshit on Tom Joad's ongoing boasting.

Yeah I boast a lot.

I was an REMF Air Force Medic, AKA Bedpan Commando.

[Ike Bana]

WTF you guys? So how's it that I'm the only one who gets to be "elitist militaria" or whatever TF Zeke calls it?

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by Tom Joad

Yeah I boast a lot.

I was an REMF Air Force Medic, AKA Bedpan Commando.

Actually, you're the worst sort of boaster. You assign your own validity to another (your son and his colleagues) then attempt to bolster your point through implied knowledge association. As it turns out, I have trained with Massad Ayoob and at Gunsite (among others). What I indicate comes from actual experience, field work and under duress but that's not really the point.

1. Neither your son (or I) are under scrutiny here.
2. You argument is.
3. But his admission that Green Berets are "not Supermen" implies he is dealing in reality.
4. You are not.
5. As simply as I can put it, you are STILL out of your element.

First, your son's (more Joad boasting) "combat" tours to the Middle East actually mean nothing anywhere except his specific location at the time. Every physical location differs in so many ways that immersion in one helps you very little in others. For every environmental foray, you have to break it down to the basics.

Second, being "damned good" with a pistol is even further walk back on your part from a prior "99% bulls eye" claim previously given. Again, you possess absolutely zero understanding of stress physiology or what occurs under adrenaline. That's physically impossible. As close as you can get in terms of shooting and fitness are Olympic biathletes and they are not so perfect using rifles without the caveat of anyone shooting back.

Finally, in terms of me being a wannabe, such ad hominem attacks clearly do nothing beyond point out your frustration, embarrassment, and intellectual lack of capacity to engage in a high-level discussion regarding a subject you (obviously) possess no depth in.

Face it, you're getting your ass kicked on the argument and -- now -- you're flailing like a helpless person in over your head. Metaphorically, referencing your son every fifteen words is nothing beyond the terrified shriek of a young girl begging for her mother to come save her before drowning in front of her friends.

You're in over your head and it shows.

You can call me arrogant all you like, it doesn't change the above.

[Tom Joad]

Originally Posted by Zeke

Actually, you're the worst sort of boaster. You assign your own validity to another (your son and his colleagues) then attempt to bolster your point through implied knowledge association. As it turns out, I have trained with Massad Ayoob and at Gunsite (among others). What I indicate comes from actual experience, field work and under duress but that's not really the point.

1. Neither your son (or I) are under scrutiny here.
2. You argument is.
3. But his admission that Green Berets are "not Supermen" implies he is dealing in reality.
4. You are not.
5. As simply as I can put it, you are STILL out of your element.

First, your son's (more Joad boasting) "combat" tours to the Middle East actually mean nothing anywhere except his specific location at the time. Every physical location differs in so many ways that immersion in one helps you very little in others. For every environmental foray, you have to break it down to the basics.

Second, being "damned good" with a pistol is even further walk back on your part from a prior "99% bulls eye" claim previously given. Again, you possess absolutely zero understanding of stress physiology or what occurs under adrenaline. That's physically impossible. As close as you can get in terms of shooting and fitness are Olympic biathletes and they are not so perfect using rifles without the caveat of anyone shooting back.

Finally, in terms of me being a wannabe, such ad hominem attacks clearly do nothing beyond point out your frustration, embarrassment, and intellectual lack of capacity to engage in a high-level discussion regarding a subject you (obviously) possess no depth in.

Face it, you're getting your ass kicked on the argument and -- now -- you're flailing like a helpless person in over your head. Metaphorically, referencing your son every fifteen words is nothing beyond the terrified shriek of a young girl begging for her mother to come save her before drowning in front of her friends.

You're in over your head and it shows.

You can call me arrogant all you like, it doesn't change the above.

So what branch of the military were you in Zeke?

How much combat have you seen?

What makes you think you're more high speed low drag than a Green Beret Master Sergeant (18-Zulu) that has been in the Army for 18 years, with over 15 as a Green Beret in 5th Special Forces Group? By the way 5th Group has had more confirmed kills than all of the other SF Groups combined?

You know what I think Zeke?

I think you're nothing but a blowhard internet tough guy who can't stand the fact that he has been upstaged.

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by Tom Joad

So what branch of the military were you in Zeke?

How much combat have you seen?

What makes you think you're more high speed low drag than a Green Beret Master Sergeant (18-Zulu) that has been in the Army for 18 years, with over 15 as a Green Beret in 5th Special Forces Group? By the way 5th Group has had more confirmed kills than all of the other SF Groups combined?

You know what I think Zeke?

I think you're nothing but a blowhard internet tough guy who can't stand the fact that he has been upstaged.

Again, you miss the point and embarrass yourself. I don't care about any of that. Only YOU do and, then, only to polish your personal knob or (lamely) support a discredited argument. As I said, you are the worst sort of boaster trying to garner credibility from the exploits of others.

You're not a man and your argument sucks. (Were you self-aware you'd get that. )

Yes, I have just -- personally -- called out your masculinity. Now, do you know how to defeat that? Instantly? In spades?

Quit waving your son's dick around and locate an argument.

[Tom Joad]

Originally Posted by Zeke

Again, you miss the point and embarrass yourself. I don't care about any of that. Only YOU do and, then, only to polish your personal knob or (lamely) support a discredited argument. As I said, you are the worst sort of boaster trying to garner credibility from the exploits of others.

You're not a man and your argument sucks. (Were you self-aware you'd get that. )

Yes, I have just -- personally -- called out your masculinity. Now, do you know how to defeat that? Instantly? In spades?

Quit waving your son's dick around and locate an argument.

So Solly Zeke, that cheesy Junior High School trick won't work on me.

Bitch ain't it?

It really frosts your balls that Old Tom Joad isn't going to grovel in awe before Zeke, the Almighty Law Enforcement Officer doesn't it?

[Tom Joad]

Originally Posted by Ike Bana

WTF you guys? So how's it that I'm the only one who gets to be "elitist militaria" or whatever TF Zeke calls it?

You were a Marine.

That is elite in my book.

My sons best buddy started out as a Marine.

He was a sniper in the battle of Fallujah.

Then he switched over to Army Special Forces.

Really nice modest guy.

Not an ounce of arrogance in him.

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by Tom Joad

It really frosts your balls that Old Tom Joad isn't going to grovel in awe before Zeke, the Almighty Law Enforcement Officer doesn't it?

Uh, no?

Seriously, your ongoing display of poor intellectual understanding is completely baffling. You never make any sense and continuously reek of threatened.

Hiding behind your son...

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by Tom Joad

So Solly Zeke, that cheesy Junior High School trick won't work on me.

The one where you're tasked with actually producing an argument?