Israel has invaded Gaza...

[MikeG22]

Originally Posted by Zeke

Which is why Israelis should cease doing that Palestinians.

Oh my god really Zeke?! The Gaza invasion has nothing to do with Hama's rockets flying into Israel? Nothing to do with weapons smuggling tunnels? Keep telling yourself Israel is the aggressor.

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by MikeG22

Oh my god really Zeke?! The Gaza invasion has nothing to do with Hama's rockets flying into Israel? Nothing to do with weapons smuggling tunnels? Keep telling yourself Israel is the aggressor.

Israel has been the aggressor for several decades.

Dave

[nailer]

Originally Posted by finnbow

Folks who vacation in the Hamptons aren't Lawn-Guylanders.

That said, my impressions as to the rudeness and lack of hospitality in Israel aren't contrived and have no bearing, on way or the other, on the righteousness of their cause.

My contention throughout this thread is that there are two sides to every story and we, as Americans, receive a very one-sided story about Israel and their struggles with Palestinians (just as residents of Islamic countries receive a one-sided story from the other perspective). You can be sure if Ike's adoptive parents had been immigrants to the USA from Ramallah he'd be singing a very different tune.

Talk about a meaningless observation, though good for a chuckle. Still plenty of locals amongst the vacationers.

Based on what PC members have been posting I'd say we have not been receiving a one sided story. Your appear to be selling one side of story. The insight you've derived from your anecdotal experiences of intermingling with the locals does not reflect how the Israeli public feels/thinks. Do you know how the Israeli's and Arabs you've met on these visit's really think, or are they sharing what they think you want to hear? I imagine that many of the Israelis see you as the American father of a DOD official. Any insight you may have gleaned applies only to those you have spoken with.

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by BlueStreak

Israel has been the aggressor for several decades.

Dave

Precisely accurate.

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by nailer

Talk about a meaningless observation. Still plenty of locals amongst the vacationers.

Based on what PC members have been posting I'd say we have not been receiving a one sided story. Your selling a one sided story and your anecdotal experiences about intermingling with the locals does not reflect how the Israeli public feels/thinks. Do you know how the Israeli's and Arabs you've met on these visit's really think, or are they sharing what they think you want to here? I imagine that many of Israelis see you as the American father of an American diplomatic official.

Good grief. Of the five weeks I've spent traveling around Israel and Jordan, only several days have been with my son and he's no diplomat (literally or figuratively). Actually, he's about as far removed from a diplomat as humanly possible - He (like I) is a construction project manager - a dirt-kicker, if you will.

The rudeness and confrontational nature of Israelis is simply an observation based upon numerous anecdotes which happened on virtually a daily basis while there. They have nothing to do with the righteousness of their cause in Gaza.

Just for grins, here are 4-5 anecdotes that occurred in my first several days there in my 3-week November trip. Things like these occurred every day and are illustrative of the what I'm talking about:

- On the last leg of my flight into Ben Gurion, a lady approached her seat in front of me and wanted to put her overhead bag in the bin above. There was a carry-on in the middle of the bin (with space for 1/2 a bag on each side) and the lady asked politely a seated Israeli man if she could move his bag over to fit hers in the bin. He jumped up, got in her face and yelled at her "No. Don't touch my bag" before sitting back down. I stood up and said "May I help you, Ma'am" while shoving his bag to the side and putting her bag up there. My being 6'5" and weighing 225, he demurred.

- That night in Tel Aviv, we were walking and came up to a crosswalk adjacent to a construction site that rendered the walk signal meaningless (no vehicular traffic could pass the crosswalk). We walked across and an older Israeli woman ran up to us and started wagging her finger and screaming at us (in Hebrew) due to our perceived jaywalking on a closed street.

- The next day, we drove to Eilat and when checking into the hotel, I couldn't remember if the hotel included breakfast. I asked the clerk and he responds (in English) "How the hell should I know? You made the reservation, not me and you could have made it either way." I responded that my documents were in the car and asked if he could check my reservation oh his computer "Not my problem. Look for yourself to see what your reservations said."

- That night we went to dinner and were heading to a well-regarded hole-in-the-wall restaurant. The owner of a restaurant next door wanted us to come into his place and we politely said, "No thanks. We're have somewhere else in mind." We ended up in the restaurant next door (after a bit of a walk around) and when we came out, he said "You ate there instead of my place? I hope you get food poisoning."

- The next morning we left Eilat to go to the border crossing into Jordan, but Eilat's roads were all screwed up due to road blockages for a marathon. We were essentially forced to make a U-turn on a street with no traffic (hardly anyone was driving due to the early hour and the race-blocked streets). A cab proceeded to chase us, beeping his horn. We pulled over and he ran up to our car and started screaming his head off about the U-turn.

- At the Israeli side of the border crossing, my son presented his red (official) passport along with an ID card signed by the Israeli Ministry of Defense, which together precluded the need to pay the (pretty expensive) exit visa from Israel, as would be true with the black (diplomatic) passport that was still in processing at our embassy. He had crossed this very same border a couple of months earlier with the same documents and did not have to pay the fee. The supervisor at the border went on a non-stop rant and we ended up paying him the $30-40 just to shut him up. When we crossed into Jordan, it was if a weight had been lifted. The border guards invited us to drink tea with them and they were exceedingly polite and friendly. The same applied to every Jordanian me met over the next 3-4 days.

All of these incidents occurred within the first 2 days of our arrival and things like this happened every day we were in Israel. In all of our restaurant meals in Israel, we had pleasant wait staff on only two occasions. In all my travels, I've never experienced anything remotely similar in terms of rudeness and confrontational nature.

My observations have nothing to do with their religion, nor their stance on Gaza. My previous vacation was in Turkey for several weeks last May and I was literally bowled over by their hospitality and graciousness. My view on Turkish hospitality also has no bearing on my feelings that Erdogan is a prick.

[Pio1980]

Dunno what happened with my uncle to disappoint him with them, that was decades ago and he was there as an ag expert consultant.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

[nailer]

Originally Posted by finnbow

Good grief. Of the five weeks I've spent traveling around Israel and Jordan, only several days have been with my son and he's no diplomat (literally or figuratively). Actually, he's about as far removed from a diplomat as humanly possible - He (like I) is a construction project manager - a dirt-kicker, if you will.

The rudeness and confrontational nature of Israelis is simply an observation based upon numerous anecdotes which happened on virtually a daily basis while there. They have nothing to do with the righteousness of their cause in Gaza...

I've removed diplomatic. He's with State though?

I was not referencing your Miss Manners experiences with the residents, but the point you made in the first sentence of the last paragraph in the post (808) I responded to and your pertinent preceding posts. With this in mind, please reread the first sentence, second paragraph in the post you quoted.

[nailer]

senior moment

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by nailer

Removed diplomatic. State Department though?

I was not referencing your Miss Manners experiences with the residents, but the point you made in the first sentence of the last paragraph in the post I responded to and your pertinent preceding posts.

Not exactly. He's a DoD employee, but his program is administered in Israel under the auspices of the State Department (i.e., he receives all his logistical support from the embassy, not DoD). This includes issuance of a black (diplomatic) passport to allow for unimpeded access into and out of Israel and surrounding countries. He normally travels on his blue (tourist) passport when he's not coming or going into or out of Israel though.

[nailer]

Shit finnbow, you're too quick to the draw for me, just like that LA Basin Loony Lefty Bob.

I had to remove my Charlie Brown comeback to your "good grief" opening that I was adding while you were responding.