18 and Dead.

[nailer]

There are two distinct sides in this argument: 1) law & order and 2) the African American experience with law & order since the first Africans were brought to Virginia.

"Law and order are everywhere - the law and order which protect the established hierarchy." Hebert Marcuse

[mpholland]

Originally Posted by icenine

they know how many rounds were fired they have not released that yet.

Toxicology is irrelevant as it pertains to Brown he if was indeed executed in the street.

They have the official police reports...they were cited in the report that documents the robbery. Like I said before they are not releasing those reports for some reason.

There are very valid reasons for not releasing police reports other than cover-ups.

[icenine]

Originally Posted by mpholland

Funny the stuff you don't realize when you are on the outside. Been almost a month since my kid got stabbed to death. We really don't know much still. They have a guy in custody, but have to rely on a lot of forensic evidence to make a case. On CSI they seem to get it done in a day or two. We are looking at possibly 6 to 8 months to be able to make a case. People get perturbed that they can't go to the internet and get all their questions answered immediately, so they make up plausible scenarios. Others take these plausible scenarios as gospel and start to run with them. Really people, facts take time to sort through. There were at least 22 witnesses to my sons murder. You would think it would be pretty open and shut. Well, that was 22 people, many of whom had been drinking, and others that were some distance away. It was around midnight and dark. That means that the police got 22 stories, all varying to some degree, but all had some similarities. Now the police have to take into account all of those stories and try and put together what really happened. Then they have to try and prove it. How many times does a witness get interviewed? Does their story stay the same each time? There are many factors in determining whether a witness can be credible or not. Any idea what good defense attorneys do to cases that aren't airtight? I am really tired of people not understanding how much effort police and prosecutors have to put into a case. Life isn't the way it is portrayed on TV folks. These high profile cases are even more difficult.

The issue is transparency. Where is the official police report of the officer who stopped Brown. That is not a pre-trial administrative issue or a toxicology report. The whole reason the situation is dragging on is the lack of information from the Ferguson Police Department. In short the citizens of that town have not been told the police officers side of the story, which is causing all the trouble.

Yeah if there is a trial I am sure that will take ages to come to fruition.

[mpholland]

Originally Posted by icenine

The issue is transparency. Where is the official police report of the officer who stopped Brown. That is not a pre-trial administrative issue or a toxicology report. The whole reason the situation is dragging on is the lack of information from the Ferguson Police Department. In short the citizens of that town have not been told the police officers side of the story, which is causing all the trouble.

Yeah if there is a trial I am sure that will take ages to come to fruition.

I disagree. I think a lot of the trouble is caused because people are impatient.

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by icenine

they know how many rounds were fired they have not released that yet.

Toxicology is irrelevant as it pertains to Brown he if was indeed executed in the street.

They have the official police reports...they were cited in the report that documents the robbery. Like I said before they are not releasing those reports for some reason.

Not necessarily. If he had PCP in his system, for example, allegations of his assault on the cop become all the more credible.

As for him being "executed in the street," that's a stretch at this point (as is all other speculation).

[icenine]

Originally Posted by finnbow

Not necessarily. If he had PCP in his system, for example, allegations of his assault on the cop become all the more credible.

As for him being "executed in the street," that's a stretch at this point (as is all other speculation).

yeah he was a black guy with PCP in his system


you are speculating too.


I would call anyone who gets shot multiple times with his hands in the air an execution.

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by icenine

yeah he was a black guy with PCP in his system

you are speculating too.

I would call anyone who gets shot multiple times with his hands in the air an execution.

I was not speculating that he had PCP in his system. What I did was respond to your notion that toxicology was irrelevant. My point was that the results of the toxicology reports will determine their relevance.

[mpholland]

Originally Posted by icenine

yeah he was a black guy with PCP in his system


you are speculating too.


I would call anyone who gets shot multiple times with his hands in the air an execution.

Sometimes I feel you suffer from Al Sharpton/Jesse Jackson syndrome. If something bad happens to a black man, it is racially motivated until proven otherwise. Extremism is pathetic and stupid. Most rational people can understand that the truth almost always lies somewhere between two extremes. It is entirely possible that it was a racial issue; it is also entirely possible that it wasn't. What is the matter with waiting for facts to materialize and having reasonable discussion?

[donquixote99]

Originally Posted by nailer

There are two distinct sides in this argument: 1) law & order and 2) the African American experience with law & order since the first Africans were brought to Virginia.

"Law and order are everywhere - the law and order which protect the established hierarchy." Hebert Marcuse

Very insightful point. My main argument here is with the way 'law and order' people refuse to recognize that there is ever any reason to question the fairness, honesty, and good intent of law enforcement.

This particular case has been, for me, mainly an occasion for that discussion. For me, there have been red flags here that called for close scrutiny, not quick declarations of "good shoot."

[Wasillaguy]

Originally Posted by mpholland

I disagree. I think a lot of the trouble is caused because people are impatient.

I'll keep saying it- the trouble, for the most part, is coming from outside the community. Ferguson didn't turn from a 70/30 black/white community into a war zone overnight due to the actions of those who live there. These are working class people, and their community is being over run with outside forces looking to take advantage of the chaos.
Is it a problem that the police force us nearly all white and many don't live locally? Yes, absolutely. Maybe the new Captain they brought in could help explain and resolve why more men of his character do not opt to stay and police in their own communities.
Is it still possible the cop was a racist murderer? Sure, it's possible. But holding on to that hope is something you might want to look into before you start judging others.