18 and Dead.

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by Tom Joad

I'm taking the kids side 100% to provide some balance against all those that are 100% in the cops corner.

Dat's a bullshit answer.

[bobabode]

Originally Posted by finnbow

No different than you trying to convict him without actually knowing what happened.

It's seems to me that this whole episode is a series of people overreacting to stuff due to their preconceived notions, racism, or whatever. The victim overreacted to a cop telling him to get out of the middle of the street, the cop overreacted to the victim's reluctance to do so, the community overreacted to the shooting by rioting, the cops overreacted by bringing in storm troopers to enforce the peace and the press overreacted by making national news out of a local shooting (when there were probably about 30-40 other fatal shootings that same day in the country).

Yep, couldn't have said it better. The talking heads at MSN went full commando 'first degree murder' last night, I switched over to Encore westerns and caught up on a few of Roddenberry's 'Have Gun-Will Travel' episodes. Odetta guest starred in one.

[icenine]

If the cop did not know that he was a suspect when he was gunned down the earlier cigar theft will have no bearing on the situation. Second degree murder or criminal manslaughter charges most likely.
Perhaps they have no shred of evidence that Brown pushed him back into his vehicle and the video store thing is just an effort to make Brown seem less the victim. It may have worked for about 20 minutes but it will not work in the long run.

White kids do not get shot walking in the middle of the street. Shit I did that all the time. Plus I heard this one is in a apartment complex anyway. I walked in the middle of my apartment complexes roads before who has not?

We are allowed to speculate until the truth comes out from the Police Department. It is obvious they do have not haver any evidence to back up Wilson. If you feel unconformable discussing these threads then be thankful your kid is white and this shit won't happen to him. The video of the store does cast Brown in a negative light, but if this is not connected to the reason why Wilson shot him multiple times after stopping him for walking then the cop is going to be prosecuted. Most likely...you never know I guess.

[donquixote99]

Originally Posted by Zeke

Walking in the middle of the street is more than enough reason to stop anyone.

That he was a criminal suspect is gravy.

And what is gravy? It's extra, yummy stuff. It's stuff you like and enjoy. It's stuff you want.

You want too much here, Zeke. You're enjoying it too much. You're not neutral. You've got bias--no other word for it.

But there are people investigating this who aren't going to be put-off by Brown's possible criminal involvement, let alone by bad ass photos on the internet. And I'm not as cynical as Tom. I think if there's no forensic evidence supporting the 'kid assaults cop' story, and there's an entry wound on the back, your guy is going down.

[barbara]

Icenine.... The cop may not have known about the cigar theft.... But Michael Brown did. One has to consider that Brown might have been a bit defensive when approached by law enforcement right after he had an altercation with the store clerk.

Not defending either one of them...but Brown's reaction, based on his knowledge of the cigar incident and an assumption made when the LEO approached must be considered.

[icenine]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/0...n_5682762.html


Back to square one.

I grew up in an all white town. I actually had a friend in high school that was Puerto Rican but he moved to Lorain after a few months. But otherwise it was (and may still be) pure white bread. Anyway I played in the streets all the time...no police man ever told me to get out of the road although a few motorists got pissed off. Think about it kids play in the street all the time all across America. But the police in my town looked like me and probably lived in my neck of the woods so they most likely were not going to go ballistic if we screwed up.

I do not think you can say the same about the situation in Ferguson. If you think that those who you police are not the same as you (or as good as you) you will come to treat them accordingly. I mean just look at how the Ferguson department got out all of the 1033 gear. They would not have done that in Shaker Heights.

[donquixote99]

Originally Posted by barbara

Icenine.... The cop may not have known about the cigar theft.... But Michael Brown did. One has to consider that Brown might have been a bit defensive when approached by law enforcement right after he had an altercation with the store clerk.

Not defending either one of them...but Brown's reaction, based on his knowledge of the cigar incident and an assumption made when the LEO approached must be considered.

That's a logical supposition. Might explain bad behavior on the part of Brown, when the encounter with the officer began.

The thing is, we don't actually know there was bad behavior, let alone an assault on the officer. We have witnesses, who many or may not be truthful. We have hearsay about the officer's statements, which may or may not be truthful. And we have video of Brown lying dead in the street, so we know he was shot dead in the street.

That has to be justified. If the evidence does not, when we have it, slam-dunk do that, there should be a prosecution, and a jury should decide,

[barbara]

I'm a white female and have been reprimanded by law enforcement at least three times that I can remember off the top of my head for 'walking in the street'.

It happens....

[icenine]

Originally Posted by barbara

Icenine.... The cop may not have known about the cigar theft.... But Michael Brown did. One has to consider that Brown might have been a bit defensive when approached by law enforcement right after he had an altercation with the store clerk.

Not defending either one of them...but Brown's reaction, based on his knowledge of the cigar incident and an assumption made when the LEO approached must be considered.

true

but if you raise your arms up in a surrender position and still get pumped full of lead then something is wrong. And maybe he was acknowledging that he robbed the convenience store when he raised his hands. Maybe his last thought was I fucked up and I surrender.


Until I see hard evidence that Wilson was attacked inside his vehicle by Brown I will not support the police department. This would not have happened to a middle class white kid.
The cop trying to open his door and then having it pushed back by Brown because he was too big may have upset the cop.

The cop shot out the window and Brown ran away. He shot him in the back and then Brown turned around and put his hands up in the air. According to more than one witness he kept shooting him. I can see maybe shooting him once and then calling 911 for medical treatment and providing first aid.

[barbara]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

That's a logical supposition. Might explain bad behavior on the part of Brown, when the encounter with the officer began.



The thing is, we don't actually know there was bad behavior, let alone an assault on the officer. We have witnesses, who many or may not be truthful. We have hearsay about the officer's statements, which may or may not be truthful. And we have video of Brown lying dead in the street, so we know he was shot dead in the street.



That has to be justified. If the evidence does not, when we have it, slam-dunk do that, there should be a prosecution, and a jury should decide,

I'm a bit cynical when it comes to eye witnesses. I'd like to see the forensic evidence.

If the officer did, in fact, shoot after Brown surrendered, the forensic evidence should (hopefully) be able to verify if that is true or not.