ferguson

[donquixote99]

Originally Posted by Ike Bana

I gotta say it seems to me that to the best of one's ability, Zeke attempted to deal in simple information that is currently available...and stated so.

In response he got more speculation. One can pretty accurately assume that any comment beginning with "Let's say..." has already moved into a different basis of presentation than pure available facts.

Of course it has. When certainty does not exist, 'what-if this' and 'what-if that' questions give rise to alternative possible meanings.

It's my assertion that Zeke is assuming things too, though he claims he isn't, and you seem to have bought into that. One goal of the post you mention was to attempt to open his mind to other interpretations.

[Dondilion]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

You're mixing me up with that other Don. Don de Lion or something....

Dondilion.

[donquixote99]

Originally Posted by Dondilion

Dondilion.

Meant no disrespect by having a little fun with your name there, Don. Just trying to joke a little to keep things light at that moment.

[Dondilion]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

Meant no disrespect by having a little fun with your name there, Don. Just trying to joke a little to keep things light at that moment.

I know that.

[donquixote99]

Originally Posted by Ike Bana

I gotta say it seems to me that to the best of one's ability, Zeke attempted to deal in simple information that is currently available...and stated so.

In response he got more speculation. One can pretty accurately assume that any comment beginning with "Let's say..." has already moved into a different basis of presentation than pure available facts.

To redirect a little more, the meat of my post was the last three paragraphs. The beginning was the set-up for them. I'm disappointed that you just respond by dismissing the whole thing due to a claim that uncertainty about the facts makes the whole thing invalid. Uncertainty does exist, and it is a big part of the problem in Ferguson. It would help if this was acknowledged, and the possibility of error or wrongdoing on the part of police was admitted to public communications.

[Rajoo]

Being cynical here, the storm from the citizen's protest will blow away. Police will keep a lid on the information (ongoing investigation is an endless cover) and try and maintain peace with as much force that they can get away with. Don't make it look like a police state on TV.

A few months from now a civil case will be settled for untold millions of taxpayer money, the cop resigns quietly and moves away.

[Rajoo]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

To redirect a little more, the meat of my post was the last three paragraphs. The beginning was the set-up for them. I'm disappointed that you just respond by dismissing the whole thing due to a claim that uncertainty about the facts makes the whole thing invalid. Uncertainty does exist, and it is a big part of the problem in Ferguson. It would help if this was acknowledged, and the possibility of error or wrongdoing on the part of police was admitted to public communications.

They cannot and will not. It is a matter of civil liability ($$$) and will totally screw up future settlements.

[donquixote99]

Originally Posted by BeamOn

Being cynical here, the storm from the citizen's protest will blow away. Police will keep a lid on the information (ongoing investigation is an endless cover) and try and maintain peace with as much force that they can get away with. Don't make it look like a police state on TV.

A few months from now a civil case will be settled for untold millions of taxpayer money, the cop resigns quietly and moves away.

Originally Posted by BeamOn

They cannot and will not [ever admit the possibility of error or wrongdoing]. It is a matter of civil liability ($$$) and will totally screw up future settlements.

I agree with your analysis. I don't think this would be the most just of outcomes, or the best possible way to get there. A public angered to the point of rioting is never good in the first place, and the cost of stonewalling to avoid civil liability may thus be higher than that liability. The officer avoiding prosecution, if warranted, also seems wrong.

I'm trying to think how all this could be done better.

[Ike Bana]

Originally Posted by Tom Joad

You gotta be shitin me.

Zeke has been 100% in the tank for the cops from the get go.

Who gives a shit where Zeke stands on law enforcement? I'm talking about the legitimacy of debate. Zeke produced simple information from available reporting. Don was clearly speculating his brains out, and then provides a "stellar" lecture on the value of "what if's".

Problem with these forums is that when we finally get past the 8 fucking pages of "what-if" bullshit...the discussion is so exhausted with speculation that it ends up not meaning jack shit and the whole exercise proves to be a now 12 page monumental fucking waste of time. Outside of providing everybody the opportunity to vent their shit all over the place over half-assed bullshit that proved not to be in evidence anywhere.

So the outcome here ends up right where it started.

"Cops suck."
"Cops don't suck."
"Israelis suck."
"Palestinians suck."
Everybody has their opening opinion in place...all the "what if's" haven't changed anybody's mind about anything...nobody's learned jack shit about anything from all the "what-if's" or learned anything about anything that actually happened in the real world...anybody having fun yet?

[donquixote99]

Originally Posted by Ike Bana

Who gives a shit where Zeke stands on law enforcement? I'm talking about the legitimacy of debate. Zeke produced simple information from available reporting. Don was clearly speculative, and then provides a "stellar" lecture on the value of "what if's".

Problem with these forums is that when we finally get past the 8 fucking pages of "what-if" bullshit...the discussion is so exhausted with speculation that it ends up not meaning jack shit and the whole exercise proves to be a now 12 page monumental fucking waste of time. Outside of providing everybody the opportunity to vent their shit all over the place over half-assed bullshit that proved not to be in evidence anywhere.

So the outcome here ends up right where it started.

"Cops suck."
"Cops don't suck."
Anybody having fun yet?

You're missing the points I was trying to make. Don't know how to make them better. I apologize for my inadequacy.