Israel has invaded Gaza...

[d-ray657]

Originally Posted by Wasillaguy

Lots of people accuse those who disagree with Obama of being racist. Is it any surprise they make the same judgmental leap on this subject?

I have said again and again that it is not racist to oppose Obama's policies. That does not mean that the GOP will not exploit for its own purposes the racist attitudes toward Obama that most certainly exist among a sizable sector of the GOP constituency. Moreover, there are some for whom the intensity of the disagreement is related to race.

Along the same lines, there are certainly some who base their hatred of Israel on antisemitism, but there are also those who have genuine humanitarian concerns about the conditions under which the occupants of Gaza live.

Regards,

D-Ray

[donquixote99]

The left is where you find concern for Palestinians. The left is where you generally find compassion for oppressed peoples, and concern for persons in need. The left is not where you generally find anti-semites.

The right is where you find strident critics of President Obama. The right is where you generally find apologists for oppression, and disdain for persons in need. The right is where you generally find racists.

[donquixote99]

An interersting July 25 piece in The nation: "Five Israeli Talking Points on Gaza—Debunked." Here's an excerpt:

In the over thee weeks of its military operation, Israel has demolished 3,175 homes, at least a dozen with families inside; destroyed five hospitals and six clinics; partially damaged sixty-four mosques and two churches; partially to completely destroyed eight government ministries; injured 4,620; and killed over 700 Palestinians. At plain sight, these numbers indicate Israel’s egregious violations of humanitarian law, ones that amount to war crimes.

The article had previously discussed why Israels justifications for all this are bunk, and cited the international law that they violate.

So the question remains: why do all this? Will it destroy Hamas's ability to fight Israel? No way. Will it cause the Gaza citizenry to stop hating Israel, and reject Hamas? No, it will increase hatred, and increase Hamas's support. Will it cause such dismay in the Hamas leadership that they will throw down their weapons and exclaim "I will fight no more forever?" No, Israel would have to seriously and bloodily threaten the biological survival of the Gazians to achieve that result. They would have to kill hundreds of thousands.

I think were should assume that the leadership of Israel is intelligent enough to have figured all this out. So the results they actually seek are they results they will get: the Gazian's hatred of them is renewed and increased; Hamas is left in secure control, and the Israelis are united (enough) against the assuredly-continuing 'Hamas threat.'

[Wasillaguy]

There's probably not much concern re increased hatred. Gazans elected Hamas knowing they were committed to destroying all Israelis.
Wanting to exterminate people is a pretty high level of hatred already. What's to fear in possibly making them madder?

[piece-itpete]

The tunnels. And mowing the lawn is a pretty good description.

Pete

[donquixote99]

Originally Posted by Wasillaguy

There's probably not much concern re increased hatred. Gazans elected Hamas knowing they were committed to destroying all Israelis.
Wanting to exterminate people is a pretty high level of hatred already. What's to fear in possibly making them madder?

Repeating ad nauseum how 'Hamas wants to exterminate all Israelis' is just a case of 'Your hate justifies my hate.'

Which works both ways, and results in a endless loop I've alluded to a couple of times.

Of course, it's an over-simplification--Hamas wants a number of things, and is not necessarily committed to wiping out all the Jews today. Which points to the fact that there are solutions besides exterminating all the bad Gazians.

[donquixote99]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

The tunnels. And mowing the lawn is a pretty good description.

Pete

No, 'mowing the lawn' is a metaphor, and like all metaphors, it proves nothing.

Whatever the heck you meant by it....

[Dondilion]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

The left is where you find concern for Palestinians. The left is where you generally find compassion for oppressed peoples, and concern for persons in need. The left is not where you generally find anti-semites.

The right is where you find strident critics of President Obama. The right is where you generally find apologists for oppression, and disdain for persons in need. The right is where you generally find racists.

In a playful contradiction, you are right.

[donquixote99]

Originally Posted by Dondilion

In a playful contradiction, you are right.

Sounds like I'm both right, and also entertaining! Glad to bring joy to your world....

[Ike Bana]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

Repeating ad nauseum how 'Hamas wants to exterminate all Israelis' is just a case of 'Your hate justifies my hate.'

As is "Israel targets women and children."

But maybe Hamas is just more open and honest than Israel since they put it all out there:


1. Hamas swears to conduct a holy war over Palestine against the Jews until Allah's victory is achieved.

2. The land must be cleaned of the filth and evil of the tyrannical conquerors.

3. Under the winds of Islam it is possible to have peaceful coexistence with other religious groups. But without Islamic rule over the Dome of the Rock, there can only be hatred, controversy, corruption, and repression.

4. By command of the Prophet, Muslims might fight the Jews and kill them wherever they are.

5. Hamas strives to set up an entity wherein Allah is the highest purpose, the Koran is the law, jihad holy war waged on behalf of Islam as a religious duty it its means, and dying for the sake of Allah is the noblest wish.

6. Palestine is a holy Islamic entity until the end of time. Therefore, it is non-negotiable and no one can give up any part of it.

7. It is a personal, religious commandment for every Muslim to engage in the jihad until the land is redeemed.

8.Hamas opposes any kind of international talks or negotiations as well as any possible peace arrangement. Sovereignty over the land is strictly a religious matter and conducting negotiation over it means giving up some measure of control by Islam's believers.

9. The Jews control the media and the world financial institutions. By means of revolution and war, and organizations, such as the Masons, Communists, capitalists, Zionists, Rotary, Lions, and the like, they undermine human society as a whole in order to destroy it. By their evil corruption, they try to gain domination of the world by such institutions as the United Nations and its Security Council. More details of their iniquity be found in the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.

10. Hamas opposes any secular state the PLO would seek to create in Palestine, since by definition it would be anti-Islamic. On the other hand, if the PLO would adopt Islam and follow its flag, then all of the PLO's members would become freedom fighters who would light the fire to consume the enemy.


I'm still looking for Israel's "Let's kill women and children" manifesto. Lying-ass hypocrite Jews.